The view of those who practice chastity

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Greatshield17
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26 May 2020, 6:01 pm

hurtloam wrote:

Bravo5150 wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

Greatshield, I don't understand the question I'm afraid.

Do you want to know how people in general view those who practice chastity? Or why those who practice chastity do so?

I think the question is kind of generically looking for points on how chastity might be a bad thing and he is looking for a devil's advocate for the point he is trying to make in a speech.

Ah right, ok. I get it. I think.

I'd think the arguments against are pretty obvious.

What really prompted me to post this question was that, I remember a few years ago listening to an interview on a Catholic podcast. The interviewee at one point talked about taking up the practice of chastity in his late high school years, to which the interviewer made the comment of something along the lines of, (this might open a new can of worms) "today this would be frowned upon as being like, heteronormative or something."

In hindsight I realize that the guy may have been exaggerating or engaging rhetoric, but at the time it made me wonder if there was more to opposition to chastity than, the simple objections that it's too hard or won't make you happy.

In regards to MeToo, I wanted to add that to this thread because I'm interested in the effort to move away from commercializing sex since MeToo, such as removing the swimsuit modeling portion from Miss America.

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Greatshield17
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26 May 2020, 6:24 pm

Fnord wrote:

I don't see how chastity can be enforced, except through brainwashing, guilt-trips, and shaming those who so much as look at another person below chin-level.

The Catholic approach to promoting chastity, is to teach that sex is the sacrosanct, God-given act of procreation by which a new human life is brought into the world, as well a great self-giving, unitive act love towards one's spouse. Current problems that Catholics run into in regards to teaching young people chastity include, persisting puritanical views and teaching methods that all-but state that sex is evil and not the sacrosanct act of procreation, and the "sexual prosperity gospel," which emphasizes the real or believed benefits of saving oneself for marriage, over the goodness of marriage and the procreative act in and of themselves.

kraftiekortie
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26 May 2020, 8:51 pm

I have nothing against chastity if any one person wants to practice it.

Fnord
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26 May 2020, 9:17 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I have nothing against chastity if any one person wants to practice it.

Even Mrs. Kortie?

Truthfully, even married people have the right to deny access to their own bodies by their spouses. Men have been charged with rape for forcing their wives to have sex, and many religions consider sex to be the husband's pleasure and the wife's duty.

Besides, what difference is there between celibacy and chastity? Not that all priests have been celibate, nor have all virgins remained virgins their entire lives; but what difference should it make to anyone that some strangers are or are not having sex?

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techstepgenr8tion
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26 May 2020, 10:08 pm

Fnord wrote:

but for knowing that you haven't conceived an unwanted child or contracted an STD, it's as close to 100% certainty as you're going to get.

Helps reduce the risk of alimony too.

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27 May 2020, 8:20 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Fnord wrote:

but for knowing that you haven't conceived an unwanted child or contracted an STD, it's as close to 100% certainty as you're going to get.

Helps reduce the risk of alimony too.

Actually, marriage is the single most common cause in all divorces -- no marriage, no divorce; no divorce, no alimony.

It's the risk of child support that celibacy reduces, although celibacy also reduces one's chances of a "shotgun" wedding.

techstepgenr8tion
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27 May 2020, 8:46 am

That's why I said helps reduce. One could have a purely sexless marriage and get divorced, they seem to be rather rare though (and I don't mean largely sexless - I mean literally sexless).

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Gentleman Argentum
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27 May 2020, 6:03 pm

To get a good Devil's Advocate against chastity, you will have better luck in a bar than an Aspy forum. :lol:

My belief is the human race would be better off without sex, we can really get better results in the laboratory rather than rolling the dice.

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27 May 2020, 6:11 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

That kind of thing is more Samael Aun Weor's wheel house.

Sorry, not familiar with the gentleman. I only have read a very few books. The name sounds familiar from Kraig's bibliography.

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28 May 2020, 8:17 am

Gentleman Argentum wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

That kind of thing is more Samael Aun Weor's wheel house.

Sorry, not familiar with the gentleman. I only have read a very few books. The name sounds familiar from Kraig's bibliography.

From Wikipedia:

Samael Aun Weor (March 6, 1917 – December 24, 1977), born Víctor Manuel Gómez Rodríguez, was a spiritual teacher and author of over sixty books of esoteric spirituality. He taught and formed groups under the banner of "Universal Gnosticism", or simply "Gnosis". Samael Aun Weor referred to his teachings as "The Doctrine of Synthesis", which not only emphasizes the existence of the perennial philosophy, but that its highest teleological function is the accomplishment of "Christification" and "Final Liberation".

Just another double-talking New-Age philosopher, now dead.

techstepgenr8tion
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28 May 2020, 8:37 am

Gentleman Argentum wrote:

Sorry, not familiar with the gentleman. I only have read a very few books. The name sounds familiar from Kraig's bibliography.

He was a bit of a wild man. I remember reading one of his books and him saying something like one of the metaphysical goals being congugal relations with one's wife and abstaining from orgasm for 40 years. I also ended up reading Pistis Sophia several years ago, there was a version that he did a commentary on and it was overpowering enough that I decided to just go with the original G. S. R. Mead translation.

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Greatshield17
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29 May 2020, 3:07 pm

Gentleman Argentum wrote:

To get a good Devil's Advocate against chastity, you will have better luck in a bar than an Aspy forum. :lol:

My belief is the human race would be better off without sex, we can really get better results in the laboratory rather than rolling the dice.

It's not so much playing Devil's Advocate as seeing what more there is to the opposition to chastity than the simple objections, and if there are more complex beliefs beneath the surface, such as your belief that procreation should be done via laboratory control.

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30 May 2020, 3:51 pm

Fnord wrote:

Gentleman Argentum wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

That kind of thing is more Samael Aun Weor's wheel house.

Sorry, not familiar with the gentleman. I only have read a very few books. The name sounds familiar from Kraig's bibliography.

How do you get "double-talking" from the above paragraph? Everyone's dead or will be, we are just chatty corpses biding our time before the spark deserts us. Double-talking, well, I'm sure everyone does that. That said, I have no opinion at all about Weor even after reading the above. Could be bad, could be good, good be just a guy that tried to make a living out of stuff he digged. Like Kraig I reckon. Not much money it, if you ask me.

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Gentleman Argentum
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30 May 2020, 3:54 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Gentleman Argentum wrote:

Sorry, not familiar with the gentleman. I only have read a very few books. The name sounds familiar from Kraig's bibliography.

LOL well that was his path, I don't think it will be my path. I don't really understand how you have cojugal relations with one's wife while abstaining from orgasm for 40 years. That is pretty wild. I wonder what the Catholic priest on this forum would think about that. Probably there would be some skepticism over the no-orgasm part. I think Kraig did not give an enthusiastic recommendation of Weor. Kraig is lukewarm about a lot of the writers but mentions many just to be thorough or because they were important in history.

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03 Jun 2020, 5:10 am

If you don't want an unwanted pregnancy, don't have sex. If you don't like children, don't have sex. If you don't like people who have disabilities, don't have sex.

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Greatshield17
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03 Jun 2020, 9:30 pm

I really hate it when I cannot keep my word, but I think I'm going to have to call this coming dialogue off. I don't want to sound like I'm dismissing peoples' comments but judging by what I've seen on this thread, it seems highly likely a dialogue on the Catholic Church's sexual doctrines won't go anywhere, and may be either very short or very long.

In my personal life, I want to focus on getting a job and finding my future spouse and thus, I don't want spend too much time on these forums.

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