Which Part Of The US Should Be Granted Statehood?

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Which Part Of The US Should Be Granted Statehood?
Puerto Rico 29%  29%  [ 2 ]
Guam 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Federated States Of Micronesia 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
American Samoa 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Northern Mariana Islands 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
US Virgin Islands 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Any Of Them 43%  43%  [ 3 ]
Something Else Entirely 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
I Think A Partition Should Happen 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
None Of The Above, It Will Likely Never Happen 29%  29%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 7

sly279
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28 Jun 2020, 12:01 am

roronoa79 wrote:
(I think I may have gotten Lincoln and Jefferson mixed up since they're close together and share similar grievances)

Quote:
All of oregon besides Portland and Salem. Or make them a state.
Northern California wants to be a state same as northern Colorado.


This sort of thing has me torn. On the one hand, those Jefferson and Lincoln would be reliably conservative states, and I would not trust them to respect the rights of queer Americans and Americans of color, especially given the Northwest's history of white nationalism. Consider the Northwest Territorial Imperative: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Territorial_Imperative. When you hear people talking about creating a white ethnostate, if they don't have the South in mind, chances are they're thinking of the Pacific Northwest.

On the other hand, the majority of these people are not outright right-wingers, and even if all the racism were taken out of the movement (however much there is), the economic grievances leveled at Portland/Salem would still remain. I'm a damn dirty leftist, but I share many conservatives' disgust with the Coasts' disregard for those of us in flyover country. As rural standards of living decrease and urbanization continues, rural Americans have less and less say over how their states and localities are governed. I would argue that unrestrained capitalism is primarily to blame for rural America being left behind economically (not that they'd agree). The coastal businessmen exploit their faith in the system and ensure that neither party will seriously suggest capitalism is to blame (hence the overbearing mainstream emphasis on culture wars). Jefferson and Lincoln would probably end up as two more contestants in the Race to the Bottom, and the workers in those states would suffer for it.

It’s nothing to do with racist, we have a corrupt democrat government who does whatever it wants and tramples our rights. 3 cities are forcing their ideas and culture on the rest of us at gun point of the police.
I live in a conservative city connected to a liberal city and it couldn’t be any more different yet the same. We have less issues then the liberal city has.


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sly279
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28 Jun 2020, 12:04 am

MaxE wrote:
I happen to think the US needs a new constitution. That would certainly make this sort of debate irrelevant.

The Federal government is becoming increasingly useless. I would go back to some sort of confederation. The Articles of Confederation may have failed at the time, but we live in different times now. I'm certain people in different parts of Oregon could find a way to co-exist if they could be left on their own. Except for protecting us against foreign intervention and preventing interstate rivalry from getting out of hand, the Federal government really doesn't do much for anybody. Even space exploration is becoming privatized.

By the way, I am NOT a Libertarian. I would be perfectly OK with some state choosing to govern itself according to the teachings of Karl Marx if that's what they want. A Federal government that imposed Libertarianism and Objectivism on the states against their will would be no better than one that imposed Communism. Let the states decide. I am personally much happier with how my state (Maryland) is being run than with how the Federal government is being run. I don't think I'm alone in that opinion.

Until that Marx states decides it needs to spread its greatness to other states like communist do. Then what happens when California invades oregon?
I’d be happy if states stop violating the constitution. I’d love if a president did their job and enforced the constitution on said states,


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naturalplastic
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28 Jun 2020, 3:09 am

Puerto Rico, if it wants it. The rest no, because they are too small in population, and too far from the US mainland.

But PR never votes for statehood.



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28 Jun 2020, 11:00 am

sly279 wrote:
I’d be happy if states stop violating the constitution. I’d love if a president did their job and enforced the constitution on said states,

I have no idea which states are violating the constitution and in what way, but I think we in the US have a major problem in that we have come to worship the constitution as some sort of holy scripture. If I were religious, I might even suggest it's a violation of the 2nd Commandment.

I had a (now tragically deceased) co-worker who was an activist in the Libertarian party. He used to carry a little copy of the constitution around in his shirt pocket at all times so he could refer to it in times of need, much like a priest's breviary. We need to move beyond this way of thinking. The constitution is 233 years old. We've gone beyond the point where simply amending it (which is nearly impossible nowadays) serves our needs and start thinking about how it might be time for a new Constitutional Convention.

I would like to know what other Western country considers its Constitution sacrosanct and would consider a proposal to replace it as unpatriotic?


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28 Jun 2020, 11:20 am

I'm curious to,what states are violating the Constitution.

Other than Massachusetts and Connecticut's butchery of the second amendment.


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28 Jun 2020, 1:00 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
Other than Massachusetts and Connecticut's butchery of the second amendment.

Well the 2nd amendment is probably the strongest piece of evidence we have that the constitution is the product of a different time and should be considered for replacement, so I can see no reason to condemn MA and CT for whatever they have done in that direction.


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28 Jun 2020, 2:31 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

But PR never votes for statehood.


PR citizens have voted for statehood many times in the past, but all efforts were in vain.


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sly279
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28 Jun 2020, 2:38 pm

MaxE wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I’d be happy if states stop violating the constitution. I’d love if a president did their job and enforced the constitution on said states,

I have no idea which states are violating the constitution and in what way, but I think we in the US have a major problem in that we have come to worship the constitution as some sort of holy scripture. If I were religious, I might even suggest it's a violation of the 2nd Commandment.

I had a (now tragically deceased) co-worker who was an activist in the Libertarian party. He used to carry a little copy of the constitution around in his shirt pocket at all times so he could refer to it in times of need, much like a priest's breviary. We need to move beyond this way of thinking. The constitution is 233 years old. We've gone beyond the point where simply amending it (which is nearly impossible nowadays) serves our needs and start thinking about how it might be time for a new Constitutional Convention.

I would like to know what other Western country considers its Constitution sacrosanct and would consider a proposal to replace it as unpatriotic?


It guarantees our basic human rights. So i dont know why anyone would oppose it or want it gone. Should we remove the one that says black people are equal first or the one thst gives women right to vote ?
Are you opposed to free speech? Right to warrant? Right thst Tripp’s can’t seize your home ? Or is it just the right to self defense you want removed?
Other western nations don’t have a constitution, or bill of rights.

It shouldn’t be amended or removed, if you want to do either plan for a bloody civil war.
People will die for their rights just as they id in 1776, 1812, and 1940s. Are you ready to die to take their rights?


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sly279
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28 Jun 2020, 2:39 pm

MaxE wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Other than Massachusetts and Connecticut's butchery of the second amendment.

Well the 2nd amendment is probably the strongest piece of evidence we have that the constitution is the product of a different time and should be considered for replacement, so I can see no reason to condemn MA and CT for whatever they have done in that direction.

Right to self defense is as Relevant relevant today as if was at any time in human history.


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28 Jun 2020, 2:50 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
I'm curious to,what states are violating the Constitution.

Other than Massachusetts and Connecticut's butchery of the second amendment.

Whole west and east coasts have violated the constitution, their violating the 2nd amendment is just start of it. But violating one part of the bill of rights is bad enough to justify them being punished and brought back in line. President should 1. Cut all federal funding to said states. 2. Send in the fbi to enforce constitution, ie arrest any politician or police who violates it and their oath to protect it. They’ve committed treason. They should be put in prison for life, cause I oppose the death penalty even though that’s what’s called for. If they’d pulled this s**t in 1802 they’d Been hung in the town square.
But I think we’re civilized enough that life in prison can suffice.

To all the people who don’t care about my right to self defense why should I care about your right to speak? Why should I care about women’s suppose right to abortion?
It’s horrible you want to pick and choose what rights to respect and uphold.
Here’s what you do if you don’t like peoples rights, nothing. Speak about it all you want thsts one of your Rights but don’t try to take away other peoples rights or you may not have that right to speak anymore.
How’d you like if tru p could lock you up for saying you hate him? How about if he could station a marine in your home? Right to a jury? Sorry that’s gone. No warrant need, that right is gone now. The right to not be tortured, gone, enjoy the water boarding u til you go on state run tv denouncing your previous statements as untrue.
Right to vote? What right. The government knows besr who should run the country not you peasant. So do you really want to live in world without rights? Where trump or who ever is in charge can do whatever they want whenever they want.

I really love the people who say trumps litterally hitler, police are just racist murderers, then say only the government and police should have guns.
So the government is a bunch of murdering Nazis and only they should have guns. Guess someone didn’t pay attention in ww2 history


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sly279
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28 Jun 2020, 2:52 pm

Oh can you imagine you drive from oregon to Washington, get pulled over, show them your license and cop says sorry this isn’t valid in Washington you’re under arrest.

Cause you know we aren’t one nation. Last I checked I’m a us citizen not a oregon citizen.


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28 Jun 2020, 3:00 pm

The Federated State of Micronesia is not part of the United States. It is a sovereign nation in its own right. Like the Marshall Islands and Palau, it outsources its defence to the United States, but it is not part of the United States.

I think DC and Puerto Rico should be states. This wouldn’t make much difference electorally except maybe in the Senate, but it’s the right thing to do.

Perhaps the Pacific territories could become one state (with a population about half of Wyoming) or could join Hawaii - but I don’t think that would make sense or even be popular. As NP says, they’re too small on their own to work as US states.

The US Virgin Islands could join Puerto Rico. Again not sure that would be popular.



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28 Jun 2020, 3:07 pm

sly279 wrote:
Cause you know we aren’t one nation. Last I checked I’m a us citizen not a oregon citizen.


Are you really in Oregon? If so, where? :?


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29 Jun 2020, 3:21 am

sly279 wrote:
Other western nations don’t have a constitution


?? Do you mean they don't have ours or they don't have one like ours? Because the vast majority of modern nations have some written constitution. Other countries' constitutions have analogues to our Bill of Rights too, like France's declaration of the rights of man.

sly279 wrote:
It shouldn’t be amended or removed, if you want to do either plan for a bloody civil war.


The Founders intentionally made the constitution relatively easy to amend because they did not want to burden future generations with an unchangeable constitution that might not be able to address unforeseen issues. We only have the Bill of Rights because we agreed that the Constitution needed serious changes from the get go. There is also legal precedent for repealing one amendment with a new amendment. Is that suddenly unconstitutional?


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29 Jun 2020, 4:12 am

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:

But PR never votes for statehood.


PR citizens have voted for statehood many times in the past, but all efforts were in vain.
If they voted for statehood then what stopped them,I don't recall a vote on our end denying them.


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29 Jun 2020, 10:28 am

vermontsavant wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:

But PR never votes for statehood.


PR citizens have voted for statehood many times in the past, but all efforts were in vain.
If they voted for statehood then what stopped them,I don't recall a vote on our end denying them.


Just now went to Wiki. The last time I actually thought about PR's status was that one week we studied PR in eighth grade geography class back in 1969, and I havent been up on it since. I had the impression that like every ten years the folks in PR get to vote, and they get three clearly defined choices 1)bolt from the US and become an independent country, or (2) do the opposite and became our 51st state, or (3) stay in this gray 'commonwealth zone'. And that congress was bound to do whatever the PR voters wanted, and that the PR voters always pick 3. But apparently it isnt that simple.

They have had several plebisites on the issue, but the voters pick ...well the ballots are ambiguously worded so its hard to say what they want...but they do SEEM to pick statehood- and not the status quo. Congress is NOT bound to respond to these votes regardless of what PR voters pick. And the last vote had a ridicuously low turnout of 23 percent (so Congress used that as an excuse to disregard it). So ...I dunno.