Race, culture and concepts of ethnicity
Fnord wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
From what I know, race is actually a social construct...
"Race" is to "Human" what "Breed" is to "Dog".Try telling a dog owner that "chihuahua" and "labrador" are just social constructs and that all dogs are really the same.
However,
is there is some human equivalent of Fédération Cynologique Internationale that defines race standards and anything without their ancestry documentation is considered "mixed"?
Personally, I believe dog breeders form their own, particular subculture that indeeed culturally defines dog breeds.
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Last edited by magz on 29 Jun 2020, 9:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
magz wrote:
... is there is some human equivalent of Fédération Cynologique Internationale that defines race standards and anything without their ancestry documentation is considered "mixed"?
The American Kennel Club.
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The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.
Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
... is there is some human equivalent of Fédération Cynologique Internationale that defines race standards and anything without their ancestry documentation is considered "mixed"?
The American Kennel Club.I meant for human races.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
... is there is some human equivalent of Fédération Cynologique Internationale that defines race standards and anything without their ancestry documentation is considered "mixed"?
The American Kennel Club._________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.
Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
... is there is some human equivalent of Fédération Cynologique Internationale that defines race standards and anything without their ancestry documentation is considered "mixed"?
The American Kennel Club.So, as I have nothing to do with any of them, I don't have a "race", right? Dog breeds work that way.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
... is there is some human equivalent of Fédération Cynologique Internationale that defines race standards and anything without their ancestry documentation is considered "mixed"?
The American Kennel Club._________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.
magz wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Race has been conceptualized differently in Anglo America from how it is Latin America, and the Caribean(Anglo meaning the US and Canada).
Long complicated story short: there was more actual mixing of Europeans with other races in Spanish, French, and Portugese America than in Anglo America. And "mixed race" also has more of history of being recognized as a thing in Latin America than in Anglo America.
When Spain colonized the Caribbean, and when Cortez conquered Mexico, and Pizarro conquered the Incas, they sent the Conquistadors: all male army divisions. The conquistadors intermarried into the native populations. This resulted in the modern descendants being "mestizo" (part White and part Indian descent).
In contrast: when England colonized the eastern seaboard of what was to become the United States they sent whole families: like the storied Pilgrims to Massechusettes, and the Jamestown colonists to Virginia. So the White tended to stay all White as they spread across the English speaking north America.
Africans were later imported as slaves to Brazil and the Caribbean, and finnally to England's North American colonies. Just like Mestizo (mixed Indian and White) became a thing in Mexico and Peru, Mulatto (mixed Black and White) became a category in the Caribbean and in Brazil.
In Contrast the US evolved the "one drop rule" in law and in attitude. In the Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, or even in French Louisiana, if you were half Black you were "Mulatto". And there were even categories like Quadroon and Octoroon for one fourth and one eighth Black respectively. But in the US if you were one part in 16 Black, or even one part in 32 (in some locations), you were legally defined as being entirely "Black"(ie having one drop of blood). There was never a concept of in-between, or mixed race cetegory. You were one category or the other Black or White.
indeed in the former French colony of New Orleans Mulattoes had always been a cetegory of their own - above Blacks and below Whites in the social strata. And it was brutal shock to them, as the area became assimilated to the Anglo AMerican south in the 19th Century, and Mulattos were forced into the same box as "n****rs" with Blacks by American Jim Crow era laws and attitudes.
There was still a racial hierarchy in the Caribbean/Latin America. There were racial tensions between Mulattos and Blacks in the Caribbean.
Also in Brazil there is a saying that "money bleaches"- if you get richer and move up in society -somehow-magically- your race can also change- in the eyes of others- from Black to Mulatto to even White. in contrast in pre WWII America even Black celebs were still denied service in restaurants in the segregated south.
Long complicated story short: there was more actual mixing of Europeans with other races in Spanish, French, and Portugese America than in Anglo America. And "mixed race" also has more of history of being recognized as a thing in Latin America than in Anglo America.
When Spain colonized the Caribbean, and when Cortez conquered Mexico, and Pizarro conquered the Incas, they sent the Conquistadors: all male army divisions. The conquistadors intermarried into the native populations. This resulted in the modern descendants being "mestizo" (part White and part Indian descent).
In contrast: when England colonized the eastern seaboard of what was to become the United States they sent whole families: like the storied Pilgrims to Massechusettes, and the Jamestown colonists to Virginia. So the White tended to stay all White as they spread across the English speaking north America.
Africans were later imported as slaves to Brazil and the Caribbean, and finnally to England's North American colonies. Just like Mestizo (mixed Indian and White) became a thing in Mexico and Peru, Mulatto (mixed Black and White) became a category in the Caribbean and in Brazil.
In Contrast the US evolved the "one drop rule" in law and in attitude. In the Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, or even in French Louisiana, if you were half Black you were "Mulatto". And there were even categories like Quadroon and Octoroon for one fourth and one eighth Black respectively. But in the US if you were one part in 16 Black, or even one part in 32 (in some locations), you were legally defined as being entirely "Black"(ie having one drop of blood). There was never a concept of in-between, or mixed race cetegory. You were one category or the other Black or White.
indeed in the former French colony of New Orleans Mulattoes had always been a cetegory of their own - above Blacks and below Whites in the social strata. And it was brutal shock to them, as the area became assimilated to the Anglo AMerican south in the 19th Century, and Mulattos were forced into the same box as "n****rs" with Blacks by American Jim Crow era laws and attitudes.
There was still a racial hierarchy in the Caribbean/Latin America. There were racial tensions between Mulattos and Blacks in the Caribbean.
Also in Brazil there is a saying that "money bleaches"- if you get richer and move up in society -somehow-magically- your race can also change- in the eyes of others- from Black to Mulatto to even White. in contrast in pre WWII America even Black celebs were still denied service in restaurants in the segregated south.
In my language, "Murzyn" is someone of sub-Saharean African ancestry (specifically African, excluding other dark-skinned ethnicities) and "Mulat" is someone of visibly mixed African-European ancestry, regardless of the ratio. That appears closer to the Spanish-Portuguese-French concept of "race".
What in your opinion contributed to emergence of the one drop rule?
Interesting question.
In colonial times they had to codify laws having to do with slavery. Slavery was already linked to race. So the question arose - what is the status of the mixed race offspring of a Black slave woman and a free White man? It was decided that any person born into slavery was a slave. So they had to be classified as the race classified as slaves (Black).
In Anglo America there was a bigger White population, and a bigger pure White population. In Brazil, or Mexico, say, there wasnt the huge pure European ancestry population to run the country as the elite. So they couldnt afford the luxury of baring all less-than-lilly White folks from power the same way it could be done in the US.
But there is another ironic factor: the rise of democracy in Anglo America. Ironically precisely because Anglo America became more advanced than Latin America in achieving democracy and representative government - you could no longer have a complicated feudal heirarchy of folks of various racial mixes. It had to become all-or-nothing. You are either one race (the race that is allowed equal rights and can participate in democracy), or you are the other race (that has no rights). No in between. In Latin America, even after they broke away from Spain and Portugal, even White folks still didnt have much in the way of democratic rights. Democracy is still tenuous in the region even now. The ironic by product of our ideals of democracy is having a more vicious kind of racism here. Thats part of my theory anyway.
Fnord wrote:
Actually, everyone seems to have a "race", but clear definitions are becoming somewhat muddled due to mixed-race relationships -- I like it that way.
I agree everybody has some distinct phenotype but for some reason, skin color difference is considered "racial" in the US but e.g. height isn't.
"Race" is attributed to a person's phenotype only within a particular society - Koreans see themselves different from the Japanese, Bantu people see themselves as clearly distinct from San, the British used to find the Irish a different race...
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magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
... is there is some human equivalent of Fédération Cynologique Internationale that defines race standards and anything without their ancestry documentation is considered "mixed"?
The American Kennel Club.I meant for human races.
The Kennel Club for humans?
Ask Henriech Himmler.
Ive read once in Discover that when they do DNA testing on dogs it doesnt really correlate with breeds much. Its hard to tell the DNA of a pug nosed Pekinese from the DNA of a wild grey timber wolf.
For humans: anthropologists devote alot of energy to mapping the distribution of individual genes around the globe, but its not really possible to be map out identifiable "races" from the gene maps. Most traits dont correlate with popularly recognized racial divisions. And racial divisions are based upon small numbers of what are indeed natural traits- but a small number of traits that are socially important. And are considered socially important because they are highly visible (like skin color).
if you decided to base your race classifications upon say. blood type, instead of skin color, you would end up slicing up the human species very differently. In blood type frequencies Europeans are very similar to American Indians, and very different from Asian Indians. Asian Indians are very similar in that to Chinese. So if you decided that blood type mattered to you more than skin color, or eye shape, or hair color, then you would declare Asian Indians and Chinese as being one "Race", and you would lump White Europeans and American Indians together as another "race".
Bradleigh
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Fnord wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
From what I know, race is actually a social construct...
"Race" is to "Human" what "Breed" is to "Dog".Try telling a dog owner that "chihuahua" and "mastiff" are just social constructs and that all dogs are really the same.
A chihuahua and a mastiff is not the same thing as comparing a Korean guy to an African American guy. You have superficial differences between humans of different races, such as height, skin and hair colour, and dong length, but there is no provable differences for things like intelligence or aggression levels between what we call races. Just like how people think that pit bulls are naturally violent and dangerous dogs, but there is no actual evidence that they are any more than the average dog. It has actually been people thought they were dangerous who trained them that way.
https://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/5-reasons-why-pit-bulls-are-misunderstood/
Muts are also generally a healthier type of dog over breeds. Can we also all agree that eugenics is not cool.
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All of this is why I prefer the all-encompassing term "Human Species".
_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.
naturalplastic wrote:
But there is another ironic factor: the rise of democracy in Anglo America. Ironically precisely because Anglo America became more advanced than Latin America in achieving democracy and representative government - you could no longer have a complicated feudal heirarchy of folks of various racial mixes. It had to become all-or-nothing. You are either one race (the race that is allowed equal rights and can participate in democracy), or you are the other race (that has no rights). No in between. In Latin America, even after they broke away from Spain and Portugal, even White folks still didnt have much in the way of democratic rights. Democracy is still tenuous in the region even now. The ironic by product of our ideals of democracy is having a more vicious kind of racism here. Thats part of my theory anyway.
That's an interesting angle to view it, indeed!
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funeralxempire
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naturalplastic wrote:
magz wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Race has been conceptualized differently in Anglo America from how it is Latin America, and the Caribean(Anglo meaning the US and Canada).
Long complicated story short: there was more actual mixing of Europeans with other races in Spanish, French, and Portugese America than in Anglo America. And "mixed race" also has more of history of being recognized as a thing in Latin America than in Anglo America.
When Spain colonized the Caribbean, and when Cortez conquered Mexico, and Pizarro conquered the Incas, they sent the Conquistadors: all male army divisions. The conquistadors intermarried into the native populations. This resulted in the modern descendants being "mestizo" (part White and part Indian descent).
In contrast: when England colonized the eastern seaboard of what was to become the United States they sent whole families: like the storied Pilgrims to Massechusettes, and the Jamestown colonists to Virginia. So the White tended to stay all White as they spread across the English speaking north America.
Africans were later imported as slaves to Brazil and the Caribbean, and finnally to England's North American colonies. Just like Mestizo (mixed Indian and White) became a thing in Mexico and Peru, Mulatto (mixed Black and White) became a category in the Caribbean and in Brazil.
In Contrast the US evolved the "one drop rule" in law and in attitude. In the Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, or even in French Louisiana, if you were half Black you were "Mulatto". And there were even categories like Quadroon and Octoroon for one fourth and one eighth Black respectively. But in the US if you were one part in 16 Black, or even one part in 32 (in some locations), you were legally defined as being entirely "Black"(ie having one drop of blood). There was never a concept of in-between, or mixed race cetegory. You were one category or the other Black or White.
indeed in the former French colony of New Orleans Mulattoes had always been a cetegory of their own - above Blacks and below Whites in the social strata. And it was brutal shock to them, as the area became assimilated to the Anglo AMerican south in the 19th Century, and Mulattos were forced into the same box as "n****rs" with Blacks by American Jim Crow era laws and attitudes.
There was still a racial hierarchy in the Caribbean/Latin America. There were racial tensions between Mulattos and Blacks in the Caribbean.
Also in Brazil there is a saying that "money bleaches"- if you get richer and move up in society -somehow-magically- your race can also change- in the eyes of others- from Black to Mulatto to even White. in contrast in pre WWII America even Black celebs were still denied service in restaurants in the segregated south.
Long complicated story short: there was more actual mixing of Europeans with other races in Spanish, French, and Portugese America than in Anglo America. And "mixed race" also has more of history of being recognized as a thing in Latin America than in Anglo America.
When Spain colonized the Caribbean, and when Cortez conquered Mexico, and Pizarro conquered the Incas, they sent the Conquistadors: all male army divisions. The conquistadors intermarried into the native populations. This resulted in the modern descendants being "mestizo" (part White and part Indian descent).
In contrast: when England colonized the eastern seaboard of what was to become the United States they sent whole families: like the storied Pilgrims to Massechusettes, and the Jamestown colonists to Virginia. So the White tended to stay all White as they spread across the English speaking north America.
Africans were later imported as slaves to Brazil and the Caribbean, and finnally to England's North American colonies. Just like Mestizo (mixed Indian and White) became a thing in Mexico and Peru, Mulatto (mixed Black and White) became a category in the Caribbean and in Brazil.
In Contrast the US evolved the "one drop rule" in law and in attitude. In the Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, or even in French Louisiana, if you were half Black you were "Mulatto". And there were even categories like Quadroon and Octoroon for one fourth and one eighth Black respectively. But in the US if you were one part in 16 Black, or even one part in 32 (in some locations), you were legally defined as being entirely "Black"(ie having one drop of blood). There was never a concept of in-between, or mixed race cetegory. You were one category or the other Black or White.
indeed in the former French colony of New Orleans Mulattoes had always been a cetegory of their own - above Blacks and below Whites in the social strata. And it was brutal shock to them, as the area became assimilated to the Anglo AMerican south in the 19th Century, and Mulattos were forced into the same box as "n****rs" with Blacks by American Jim Crow era laws and attitudes.
There was still a racial hierarchy in the Caribbean/Latin America. There were racial tensions between Mulattos and Blacks in the Caribbean.
Also in Brazil there is a saying that "money bleaches"- if you get richer and move up in society -somehow-magically- your race can also change- in the eyes of others- from Black to Mulatto to even White. in contrast in pre WWII America even Black celebs were still denied service in restaurants in the segregated south.
In my language, "Murzyn" is someone of sub-Saharean African ancestry (specifically African, excluding other dark-skinned ethnicities) and "Mulat" is someone of visibly mixed African-European ancestry, regardless of the ratio. That appears closer to the Spanish-Portuguese-French concept of "race".
What in your opinion contributed to emergence of the one drop rule?
Interesting question.
In colonial times they had to codify laws having to do with slavery. Slavery was already linked to race. So the question arose - what is the status of the mixed race offspring of a Black slave woman and a free White man? It was decided that any person born into slavery was a slave. So they had to be classified as the race classified as slaves (Black).
In Anglo America there was a bigger White population, and a bigger pure White population. In Brazil, or Mexico, say, there wasnt the huge pure European ancestry population to run the country as the elite. So they couldnt afford the luxury of baring all less-than-lilly White folks from power the same way it could be done in the US.
But there is another ironic factor: the rise of democracy in Anglo America. Ironically precisely because Anglo America became more advanced than Latin America in achieving democracy and representative government - you could no longer have a complicated feudal heirarchy of folks of various racial mixes. It had to become all-or-nothing. You are either one race (the race that is allowed equal rights and can participate in democracy), or you are the other race (that has no rights). No in between. In Latin America, even after they broke away from Spain and Portugal, even White folks still didnt have much in the way of democratic rights. Democracy is still tenuous in the region even now. The ironic by product of our ideals of democracy is having a more vicious kind of racism here. Thats part of my theory anyway.
That might be a factor. In the case of less democratic societies there was a higher likelihood that a member of the old money/power class might have mixed ancestry reflecting the norms early on when few women of European descent made the journey.
For a number of reasons parts of the US had more women of European descent available and therefore had fewer mixed people, even when that society was attached to a more typical colonial society (like the US north and south) this laid the groundwork for ethnic background to dominate the concept of race, whereas in Latin America race and class identities tended to merge a bit more. Among things, this meant that poor whites had no reason to try to preserve their kids 'whiteness', rich 'whites' could be not entirely white and still count and that it would be much harder to establish 'white only' parts of society. Even in practice, white supremacists in Latin America are more likely to care about 'whitening' society than 'segregating'.
In a lot of colonial societies white men were expected to 'assimilate' their families into white society and when they chose not to they were ostracized and treated with the same racist contempt as their brothers-in-law.
_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.
funeralxempire wrote:
That might be a factor. In the case of less democratic societies there was a higher likelihood that a member of the old money/power class might have mixed ancestry reflecting the norms early on when few women of European descent made the journey.
For a number of reasons parts of the US had more women of European descent available and therefore had fewer mixed people, even when that society was attached to a more typical colonial society (like the US north and south) this laid the groundwork for ethnic background to dominate the concept of race, whereas in Latin America race and class identities tended to merge a bit more. Among things, this meant that poor whites had no reason to try to preserve their kids 'whiteness', rich 'whites' could be not entirely white and still count and that it would be much harder to establish 'white only' parts of society. Even in practice, white supremacists in Latin America are more likely to care about 'whitening' society than 'segregating'.
In a lot of colonial societies white men were expected to 'assimilate' their families into white society and when they chose not to they were ostracized and treated with the same racist contempt as their brothers-in-law.
For a number of reasons parts of the US had more women of European descent available and therefore had fewer mixed people, even when that society was attached to a more typical colonial society (like the US north and south) this laid the groundwork for ethnic background to dominate the concept of race, whereas in Latin America race and class identities tended to merge a bit more. Among things, this meant that poor whites had no reason to try to preserve their kids 'whiteness', rich 'whites' could be not entirely white and still count and that it would be much harder to establish 'white only' parts of society. Even in practice, white supremacists in Latin America are more likely to care about 'whitening' society than 'segregating'.
In a lot of colonial societies white men were expected to 'assimilate' their families into white society and when they chose not to they were ostracized and treated with the same racist contempt as their brothers-in-law.
That gave me another thought: it's all about post-colonial societes - mainly Americas and Australia, also South Africa, I think - where, for various reasons, indigenous population was sparse at the time of colonisation.
East Asia, as a counter-example, developed quite different attitudes, often including isolationism. India has so many strong internal divisions that Europeans are... just another group in its already complicated society.
I'm trying to kind of relate all the hot topics to my experience and see where the culture and history close to me fit within the bigger picture. I feel quite off-center, it's often hard to relate some Western concepts to East European realities. I think the West, USA in particular, is often guilty of attributing universality to their culture and issues.
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funeralxempire
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magz wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
That might be a factor. In the case of less democratic societies there was a higher likelihood that a member of the old money/power class might have mixed ancestry reflecting the norms early on when few women of European descent made the journey.
For a number of reasons parts of the US had more women of European descent available and therefore had fewer mixed people, even when that society was attached to a more typical colonial society (like the US north and south) this laid the groundwork for ethnic background to dominate the concept of race, whereas in Latin America race and class identities tended to merge a bit more. Among things, this meant that poor whites had no reason to try to preserve their kids 'whiteness', rich 'whites' could be not entirely white and still count and that it would be much harder to establish 'white only' parts of society. Even in practice, white supremacists in Latin America are more likely to care about 'whitening' society than 'segregating'.
In a lot of colonial societies white men were expected to 'assimilate' their families into white society and when they chose not to they were ostracized and treated with the same racist contempt as their brothers-in-law.
For a number of reasons parts of the US had more women of European descent available and therefore had fewer mixed people, even when that society was attached to a more typical colonial society (like the US north and south) this laid the groundwork for ethnic background to dominate the concept of race, whereas in Latin America race and class identities tended to merge a bit more. Among things, this meant that poor whites had no reason to try to preserve their kids 'whiteness', rich 'whites' could be not entirely white and still count and that it would be much harder to establish 'white only' parts of society. Even in practice, white supremacists in Latin America are more likely to care about 'whitening' society than 'segregating'.
In a lot of colonial societies white men were expected to 'assimilate' their families into white society and when they chose not to they were ostracized and treated with the same racist contempt as their brothers-in-law.
That gave me another thought: it's all about post-colonial societes - mainly Americas and Australia, also South Africa, I think - where, for various reasons, indigenous population was sparse at the time of colonisation.
East Asia, as a counter-example, developed quite different attitudes, often including isolationism. India has so many strong internal divisions that Europeans are... just another group in its already complicated society.
I'm trying to kind of relate all the hot topics to my experience and see where the culture and history close to me fit within the bigger picture. I feel quite off-center, it's often hard to relate some Western concepts to East European realities. I think the West, USA in particular, is often guilty of attributing universality to their culture and issues.
It's definitely fair to consider that racial concepts aren't consistent across cultures.
For what it's worth, you might want to look up the concepts of Anglo-Indian vs. Eurasian in Indian culture. Both have mixed heritage, but one is considered more 'westernized' than the other.
In some ways Poland's history might share more in common with other colonized states, with Prussians, Austro-Hungarians and Russians as the colonial powers. Poland and Ireland both benefited from Europe's colonial period (Ireland more than Poland), but both also suffered due to colonialism as well. To be fair, the Russian Empire was quite brutal even for ethnic Russians, but that said, one could still claim 'Russian privilege' existed within the Russian Empire. The benefits of being connected to an economy that was being stimulated by colonial theft might not have outweighed the costs of English or Russian domination (I'm not saying they did or that they didn't since two massive things probably can't cancel each other out even if they exist alongside each other), but both did exist.
As for indigenous peoples being sparse, that wasn't true when the very first contacts were made, but as a wave of disease spread out in front of the invaders it meant they often were encountering societies that were collapsing due to epidemics. Spanish sources especially regularly describe densely populated cities. There's evidence that the US south-east was far more densely populated than colonial sources ever documented.
Often our deaths as a result of these epidemics are treated as justification for stealing our homelands but since when did your neighbour not using his basement entitle you to move a dozen relatives into his house? How long do I need to possess your car before it becomes my car? They're little more than terrible excuses for terrible injustices.
_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.
magz wrote:
After discussing the topic a lot, I realized something about myself: the very concept of race, while well-known, is largely absent in my culture. Slavs traditionally define one's ethnicity by their language, not ancestry - so a Russian is not a Pole despite indistinguishable genetics but if a child of any ancestry grows up in Poland and speaks Polish as their first language, they is Polish.
That may, by the way, explain another phenomenon - a difference on how people react to correcting their language between Polish and English fora. But that's another topic.
This tendency makes Slavic nations ready to assimilate any minority willing to assimilate - including e.g. Bulgars being Turkish by ancestry but Slavic by language and culture. In central Europe, people tend to be descendants of those who lived here for millenia mixed with all the waves of immigration that happened since ancient times.
It was a bit strange to me that, according to Wikipedia, only 3% of North America identify as multiracial - compared to, e.g. over 40% of Brazil citizens, another big country with a history of black slavery, where some regions have over 80% of mixed-race inhabitants.
For some reason, Africans and Europeans did mix in Brazil but not in the US.
One possible explanation I could think of: As Slavs tend to pay the most attention to one's language, the Spanish and Portuguese tend to pay more attention to one's religion than ancestry. That helped the infamous Spanish Inquisition emerge but it also resulted in ex-slaves and indigenous Americans becoming marriageable after accepting Catholicism.
That were my thougths on the topic... how do you see it?
You may be right about north Slavs but south Slavs or Yugo Slavs tend to be hung up on religion and don't exactly get along.There doesn't seem to be any love lost between Orthodoxy in Serbia and Montenegro vs. catholic Croats and the muslims in Bosnia and parts of Kosovo and Albania.They have 600 year history of burning each others houses down.
That may, by the way, explain another phenomenon - a difference on how people react to correcting their language between Polish and English fora. But that's another topic.
This tendency makes Slavic nations ready to assimilate any minority willing to assimilate - including e.g. Bulgars being Turkish by ancestry but Slavic by language and culture. In central Europe, people tend to be descendants of those who lived here for millenia mixed with all the waves of immigration that happened since ancient times.
It was a bit strange to me that, according to Wikipedia, only 3% of North America identify as multiracial - compared to, e.g. over 40% of Brazil citizens, another big country with a history of black slavery, where some regions have over 80% of mixed-race inhabitants.
For some reason, Africans and Europeans did mix in Brazil but not in the US.
One possible explanation I could think of: As Slavs tend to pay the most attention to one's language, the Spanish and Portuguese tend to pay more attention to one's religion than ancestry. That helped the infamous Spanish Inquisition emerge but it also resulted in ex-slaves and indigenous Americans becoming marriageable after accepting Catholicism.
That were my thougths on the topic... how do you see it?
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