The Hypocrisy of the 'Karen' meme

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The “sense of entitlement” cyberdad speaks of is merely the expectation that fellow citizens should obey the law and not engage in anti-social behaviour, and that the police will protect law-abiding citizens from threatening or otherwise criminal behaviour.

The “karma” he speaks of is people losing their livelihoods and being subjected to mass harassment by strangers as a result of media-generated hate campaigns.

These sorts of comments are pretty standard for cyberdad though. I can’t help wondering if he’s so keen on engaging in media-approved virtue signalling that he doesn’t understand the implications of what he’s saying – or if he actually does understand and just doesn’t like white people.

When this current media obsession with "Karens" dies down (which it will) it will teach more of the population to not exercise a sense they can use inappropriate language in a public space or invade people's spaces to exert control.

I have never said I "don't like white people" however I have presented evidence that "white privilege" is a real social psychological phenomena.

I like destroying social taboos that have no specific value to society other than perpetuate mental bias.

Does that answer your question

Talking to a wall, because there is no argument sufficiently logical and reasonable that it cannot be overcome or undermined with a simple "nuh-uh", but

Being called a karen is not dependent on skin color. It is dependent on behavior and attitude. Any race can be a karen, because being a karen is dependent on behavior and attitude. Being called a karen is not dependent on gender. Any gender can be a Karen, because being a karen is dependent on behavior and attitude. When they're male, they're called a Kyle. Personally, I use the gender-neutral "Skyler". But the only qualification necessary to be one, is a specific set of behaviors and a specific attitude.

The karen attitde is not "calling cops on black people" - it's "expecting the entire world to stop until they get their utterly unreasonable demands are met" whether it be wanting to get a refund for a meal they completely consumed, getting the discount for an expired coupon from a different store for a different item, demanding they be served first despite everyone being served in order because they're somehow more important than everyone else, or generally acting like a spoiled brat in some manner. It's not simply "having a complaint", let alone a potentially reasonable complaint. It's a catastrophically unreasonable complaint of epic proportions. It's not just "excuse me sir, there's a fly in my soup..." - It's "YOU STUPID BARTENDER, I ASKED FOR VODKA ON THE ROCKS, YOU GAVE ME VODKA WITH ICE CUBES, STOP EVERYTHING UNTIL YOU MAKE MY DRINK RIGHT!" (for those that don't know "on the rocks" means "with ice") Yes, those customers actually exist, no, they are not an exaggeration, no, they are not that rare, they are quite common.

If the majority of people who exhibit this behavior happen to actually be white women, then if one were to select a single image most representative of the attitude and behavior, it would inherently be of a white woman, since that would represent the majority of individuals who happen to act that way. Is it also racist to show a picture of an east asian person working in a rice field? Are you misrepresenting something somehow? Or is it simply an actual picture of the reality that east asia does grow a lot of rice, and east asians live in east asia? Stereotyping would be saying ALL asians love rice. Stereotyping would be saying all white women are karens. Nobody is saying all white women are karens. People are making it quite clear that karens neither have to be white, nor female, to be one. Calling someone a "benedict arnold" isn't sexist and racist simply because it specifically references a white man. The name and image are just meant to convey a specific image of behavior and attitude. But nobody wants to hear that. Everybody has practically the same handful of instances of people misusing the term, because people can and do misuse words all the time (you know, like people misuse "nazi" and "facist" all the time) to somehow "prove" some alternate explanation of their interpretation of things. So whatever.

Is it also sexist and racist to say "Bye, Felicia"...? Or do people just generally understand what it's meant to convey?

Ok, Skyler Edward Wong Hau Pepilu Tiveruski IV Juan Sanches Vallalobos Ramirez John Jenn Jessie Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt Smith...

Something is not an attack simply because it is unflattering. Or is it now wrong to tell a jerk that they're acting like a jerk? Well heck, up until now, I've been quite ok with being called an a$$hole, cos I am one, but if that's the rules maybe I should start crying about being "bullied" every time someone calls me one even if I am one...

Last thing, random but not unrelated - calling me an a$$hole is NOT an ad hominem attack. Saying I'm an a$$hole, *therefore my point is invalid* IS an ad hominem attack. See the difference? "You're a bigot" is not an ad hominem. "Well, you're just a bigot, *therefore your point is invalid*" IS an ad hominem. Calling someone a bigot, explaining why you feel that way, and still addressing their points fairly, is not an ad hominem attack, nor does it magically convert the entire response into an ad hominem attack, simply because it included something the subject considers to be unpleasant or untrue.

Who is the original "Karen"?

That's easy, Carolyn Bryant
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/e ... onham.html

"Karens" originally werent supposed to be racist. Just bossy or whatever. They even put an artist's conception of a Karen on the cover of Time before it got linked to race ("this is karen. She wants to talk to your manager"). But then there was that lady in Central Park who called the cops on the Black bird watcher. So it was then that "Karenism" got linked to racism.

I thought that this thread was going to use the "Leona Helmsly" defense.Back in the 80's Leona Helmsly was a manhatten mogul of real estate who was dubbed "the queen of mean". But some folks argued that "if she were a man like [the then young and pre reality TV pre politics] Donald Trump she would be praised for her behavior". Which...yeah...they kinda had a point.

Someone MIGHT argue that "Karens" are just being assertive. But its not my axe to grind one way or the other.

It has pretty much always been used to describe a middle aged white women with a sense of entitlement. In the last month or two it has evolved to describe a racist middle aged white women with a sense of entitlement. While 100 percent of people do not use it exactly this way, most do. This is not unusual pretty much most expressions and words are not used by everybody in the exact same way.

You can still be a Karen by being obnoxiously self-centered, even if you aren't racist about it.

The racism is just an added extra, and again largely based around an automatic assumption of superiority. Race is just something else for them to feel superior about, as part of a very long and delusional list.

This wasn't actually a conversation about race, as Karenism runs far deeper than that, but if you insist on spinning it around to your chosen pet ranting subject of choice then please allow me to intervene.

It is completely wrong to call the Police if what you THINK is evidence of criminal behaviour is simply a black man walking in a park (for example). Likewise telling a Native American to "go back where you came from" is delusional idiocy of the highest degree. There is a totally irrational level of assumed superiority in all of this, which is particularly delicious because these people are generally as thick as two short planks and have no irony awareness whatsoever.

America has long suffered from institutional racism. That's the subtle kind of racism that discriminates based on where you live, where you go to school, what your surname is, who your friends are - when filling out forms or dealing with authority. Most western nations have some degree of this going on, they cover it up with varying degrees of success. But if you start looking at average wealth across different ethnic groups, or average lifespan, or unemployment, or poverty, or debt, or substance abuse, or likelyhood of incarceration, it's pretty obvious. Society always works in the favour of those who run it, and that's mostly white men. If you treat people like rats and rig the world against them, don't expect them to be saints and then get all outraged when they're not. That's bullying mixed with gaslighting hypocrisy.

In the States you also have good old fashioned direct racism - the slurs, the beatings, the continual Police harrassment, the jury-rigging, the Karens going nuts because there's a black guy in the neighbourhood who isn't a gardener. Imagine being bullied at school for being the poor kid, but it happens every day of your life. If you're unwilling to recognise WHY there is racial tension, you're part of the problem.

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

Bias is very hard to confront when its been conditioned from childhood and you can't see it or don't want to see it. It annoys me because racial bias is much easier to overcome than bias against disability. The latter is the final frontier for mankind.

In the old youtube we just called them crazy women having PMS.

Does Karen have a male counterpart?
In Polish memes, three generations of dysfunctional Poles are presented in pairs:
"Janusz" (male) and "Grażyna" (or "Halyna", female) - in their late 50s or 60s;
"Karyna" (female) and "Seba" (male) - young adults;
"Brajanek" (male) and "Dżesika" (female) - Karyna's children.

That gives quite a space for social satire.
One of characteristics for all of them is acting entitled, with disregard for others.

A male "Karen" is often referred to as a "Kyle".

In the UK, probably a "Kevin". But that's not to say all Karens or Kevins are actually bad.

The whole concept is a stereotypical figurehead thing, not to be taken too literally.

I may be wrong, but I believe that the original Karen was not just any demanding woman, but rather a domineering ex-wife. Usually the Karen keeps the ex in line by holding visitation and custody rights over his head until he caved to her demands.

Kevins or Darrens