Should hate crime laws apply to religious groups?

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If hate speech laws are to be had then, by virtue of being law, they should apply to everyone equally.

That being said, whether hate speech laws are to be had is a different question altogether.

Many places, social-media etc. ban people from saying "[some ideology]-ists are evil", regardless of the fact that some ideologies are indeed evil.

Like fascism. Why can't I say fascists are evil, after all the crimes against humanity they've committed?

That's hate-speech for some. But to me it's common sense.

I see two issues here:

1. How to define hate speech.
A distinction can be made between the following two:

A: [Insert group you don't like] are a bunch of [Insert some very not-nice adjectives and nouns]
B: [Insert group you don't like] should be [Insert some very not-nice way of torturing, maiming and killing not only members of the group, but also their family, neighbours, dogs, cats, platypuses, and long-forgotten grade school classmates]

... however, statements in the real world aren't always so easily divided into two such categories. How specific should a statement be before it becomes more than simply a statement of disapproval and an actual call to violence?

2. How to deal with symbolic vs. specific hate speech.
This is what makes religious hate speech a bit tricky...

How does one, for instance, deal with the following statement:

C: People belonging to [GROUP] must burn forever in hell. (a staple in Christianity and Islam)

... now, obviously, no human being has the actual capacity to make someone else burn forever in hell*, so should this statement even be taken seriously?

But what if someone uses such a statement as a pretext for killing someone to "hasten" their upcoming divine judgment and barbecue? Is it then a purely religious statement or a call for violence?

*If you do, then you have friends in some very, very, very, very, very low places... and a way to prevent the heath death of the universe.

Last edited by GGPViper on 30 Aug 2020, 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That's the thing,it cuts both ways,like which came first:The chicken or the egg?

You can't label one political or religious view as hate,without then being guilty of the same hate.

If it's hate for a preacher to call homosexuality a sin,it's then also hate to call him a bigot as well.The knife has two edges metaphorically!

That's why within reason there has to be freedom of speech within politics and religion in a legit free society.

In Canada, pastors can be charged with a hate crime for quoting the bible. https://christiannews.net/2013/02/28/ca ... ate-crime/

There are many very sensitive people who get upset just because someone disagrees with them or doesn't approve of their lifestyle. I read about people who got upset and cried for an hour because someone wouldn't bake them a cake because they didn't support the lifestyle they chose or because a form didn't include their gender identity. Imagine if someone was raised an atheist and walked into a church for the first time and heard the pastor say that God's word calls a behavior they enjoy an abomination. They'll feel like a victim of hate.

I included 8 examples in my OP. Do you think they should be considered illegal hate speech?




I watched a TV show where a character supported murdering an innocent person and another character expressed approval because that person didn't agree with their modern ideology. It was a popular, mainstream show on the standard TV channels that aired during the prime time evening hours. That type of hate speech is becoming more common but I'm sure no one complained because it wasn't against a protected minority.

Right and wrong do exist, though...it's not all just shades of gray where everyone has an opinion and it's relevant...so I think it's important to recognize that as well.

My thoughts on the below statements...checked for factual veracity...as they relate to science and truth. While false statements are not necessarily hateful in nature, but the fact that they're wrong clearly means they're problematic.

Saying same sex acts are an abomination (homophobia).
-False. It occurs naturally from birth, it can't be changed, and is harming no one.

Saying trans men with female genitals are women (transphobia)
-True in a strict sense, from a biological standpoint. Psychologically and socially, may be false.

Saying there are only two genders (hatred against non-binary)
-False. Even biologically speaking, there are intersex/hermaphrodite individuals.

Saying God or the Savior is a male (misogyny).
-False. Has no basis in science.

Saying abortion should be illegal (opposing women's reproductive rights)
-Neither true nor false (opinion).

Saying people should be given jobs based on merit instead of skin color (racism).
-Both true and false. True because merit is obviously important. False because inherent prejudices regarding skin color may take affirmative action to subvert.

Saying unbelievers won't go to heaven (hatred against atheists and those of other religions)
-False. No scientific evidence.

Last edited by eyelessshiver on 30 Aug 2020, 4:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.

A woman in Oregon was fired from her human service job for posting on her social media about a client leaving the place in a nice car and ranting about people abusing food stamps. This got taken as hate speech on her part.

Now this place does not want someone working for them who is going to be judging people and looking down on them when they come to them for assistance when they hit hard times and makes bad assumptions about someone based on what car they drive or what they have on or what gadget they own.

Sounds like she supported fiscal responsibility in wanting to spend government money wisely. That reminds me of people who have been accused of hate speech and fired for defending racial equality (saying all lives matter). A writer for the TV show "Law & Order" was ironically fired because he supported law and order (he said he's defend his property if the rioters near his house tried to burn it down). So much hate going around.

Exactly why I have ZERO trust for the left or right. When it comes down to it both sides are full of raving hateful lunatics.

Well, in my home country of Denmark statements 2 to 8 would likely never be covered by hate speech laws... they are too generic.

The first claim "(same sex acts are an abomination") could theoretically fall under the Danish hate speech laws because of the word "abomination" has a very strong derogative meaning here... but it would depend on the context in which the statement was made, as simply quoting religious scripture (Leviticus 18:22 in this case) is unlikely to be considered hate speech in itself.

Personally, I prefer rebuttal over repression...

This should be amended to exclude civil discussions on this topic .

What about quoting Leviticus 20:13 which is the same as Leviticus 18:22 except it adds "they shall be put to death"? A pastor in Canada was charged for quoting that verse to someone with same sex attraction after that person claimed he was threatened by it.

Did you not read where I mentioned hitting hard times?

Have you heard about people losing their jobs? This has nothing to do with being financially irresponsible and savings can run out you know. She deserved to be fired for being a classist.

Sometimes businesses downsize so they lay off their employers.

Plus "all lives matter" is a racist thing to say because it denies the racial issue black people face. It pretends there is no racism with the police.

I knew someone who was denied food at the food bank because he had an inexpensive older vehicle. They said the food was for people who actually needed it. If I saw someone driving a new BMW going to the welfare office to apply for a handout, I'd suspect they may be abusing the welfare system and have a problem with it too. I think some states don't allow people with more than $2,000 in assets to collect food stamps because they want to preserve the limited resources for those who need it the most. They'd tell that person to sell their car and use the money they get to buy food before asking other people for money.



People say "all lives matter" because statistics show black people are not more likely to be killed by police than white people. The reason that may not seem true is because the corrupt mainstream media makes every questionable black death by cops national news while ignoring every white person killed by police. The media and the politicians who constantly stir up racial tensions don't care about black people. They're just using them to promote their agenda and win elections. I consider that immoral and racist.