The 4 officers weren't as white as one might assume

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cyberdad
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16 Sep 2020, 4:57 am

QFT wrote:
left wing whites are racist against whites.


That narrative is getting stale...



QFT
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16 Sep 2020, 5:09 am

cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
left wing whites are racist against whites.


That narrative is getting stale...


Here is the angle thats not stale. Keung illustrates that blacks can be racist against blacks. By symmetry, this implies that whites can be racists against whites.



cyberdad
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16 Sep 2020, 5:38 am

QFT wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
left wing whites are racist against whites.


That narrative is getting stale...


Here is the angle thats not stale. Keung illustrates that blacks can be racist against blacks. By symmetry, this implies that whites can be racists against whites.


You have illustrated how a people can by prejudiced against their own self-identified made up construct when they should really be prejudiced against another designated made up construct designed to make it easier to enslave people.



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16 Sep 2020, 6:04 am

cyberdad wrote:
... when they should really be prejudiced against another designated made up construct ...


I didn't say that part.



cyberdad
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16 Sep 2020, 6:31 am

QFT wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
... when they should really be prejudiced against another designated made up construct ...


I didn't say that part.


You were insinuating that the scenario in the case of the officers is a reversal of the general accepted direction of prejudice



QFT
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16 Sep 2020, 6:36 am

cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
... when they should really be prejudiced against another designated made up construct ...


I didn't say that part.


You were insinuating that the scenario in the case of the officers is a reversal of the general accepted direction of prejudice


I didn't say that in case of the officers there is anti-white prejudice. I said in case of officers there is a prejudice against one's own race -- which in this case is black-against-black (black officer Keung is participating in a murder of black man Floyd).

I then said that if in Minneapolis we could have Keung who is black-against-black, then maybe we can also have somewhere in California some guy named Joe who is white-against-white. I didn't imply any connecton between the two, I only stated a parallel.



cyberdad
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16 Sep 2020, 6:45 am

QFT wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
... when they should really be prejudiced against another designated made up construct ...


I didn't say that part.


You were insinuating that the scenario in the case of the officers is a reversal of the general accepted direction of prejudice


I didn't say that in case of the officers there is anti-white prejudice. I said in case of officers there is a prejudice against one's own race -- which in this case is black-against-black (black officer Keung is participating in a murder of black man Floyd).

I then said that if in Minneapolis we could have Keung who is black-against-black, then maybe we can also have somewhere in California some guy named Joe who is white-against-white. I didn't imply any connecton between the two, I only stated a parallel.


You are still making assumptions that that the actions are based on race (whether across or within), there is no proof, even Chauvin's decision to choke Floyd may have more to do with his personal history with Floyd rather than because he was black



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16 Sep 2020, 12:21 pm

cyberdad wrote:
You are still making assumptions that that the actions are based on race (whether across or within), there is no proof, even Chauvin's decision to choke Floyd may have more to do with his personal history with Floyd rather than because he was black


Well, since I am not a mind reader, I am trying to explore as many possibilities as possible. The things that were already brought up were

a) Its white on black racism
b) Its not about race to begin with

But then there is something else that nobody brought up

c) Its multiracial attack on black person which includes black-on-black racism as one of its components

So in this thread I am focused on "c" for the simple reason that nobody else said it, and we need to look at as many options as possible.



cyberdad
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16 Sep 2020, 6:27 pm

QFT wrote:

But then there is something else that nobody brought up

c) Its multiracial attack on black person which includes black-on-black racism as one of its components

So in this thread I am focused on "c" for the simple reason that nobody else said it, and we need to look at as many options as possible.


I see. I guess people who migrate to the US from many communities (e.g. Cambodian) internalise the pervading values shared among the majority in the US. For example Filipinos are an example of a community who proactively assimilate into white America. In doing so they internalise and carry the same values so its not that surprising that a second generation Cambodian might also have disdain for African Americans.



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17 Sep 2020, 12:47 am

cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:

But then there is something else that nobody brought up

c) Its multiracial attack on black person which includes black-on-black racism as one of its components

So in this thread I am focused on "c" for the simple reason that nobody else said it, and we need to look at as many options as possible.


I see. I guess people who migrate to the US from many communities (e.g. Cambodian) internalise the pervading values shared among the majority in the US. For example Filipinos are an example of a community who proactively assimilate into white America. In doing so they internalise and carry the same values so its not that surprising that a second generation Cambodian might also have disdain for African Americans.


The assumption that racism is an American thing is another fallacy. If anything, Americans are the ones who are advocating opposition to racism. Its true that Canada -- and possibly Western Europe -- are opposed to racism even more strongly than America, but thats about it. If you go anywhere outside of Western Europe or Canada, then America will be a lot *less* racist than most of the rest of the world, by far.

For example, in India it used to be common place to judge people by casts. While I won't say that the correlation between a cast and a skin color is exact, at least there is a *tendency* that higher casts have lighter skin. I actually remember when I was in India I was talking to someone about my social problems and that person actually told me "you have white skin and I don't, yet for some strange reason I have to be the one teaching you". I realize it was a one-off incident but you won't hear it in America.

But, back to the topic. I guess Indian racism against blacks won't be surprising since Indians aren't black -- just like they aren't White. But if you have a *black* racism against blacks (as you see in Keung case) that is a lot more surprising. I guess the way to stop it from being surprising is to partition blacks into sub-cultures. Like if there is Ethiopian racism against Ghanas, that would be fine. But since -- presumably -- neither Keung nor Floid knows where their ancestors are from, thats why that won't apply.

But then again, you never know. *IF* someone were to discover that Keung is Ethiopian, Floyd is Ghanan, and Ethiopians hate Ghanas, that would be rather interesting :)



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17 Sep 2020, 1:21 am

QFT wrote:
But, back to the topic. I guess Indian racism against blacks won't be surprising since Indians aren't black -- just like they aren't White. But if you have a *black* racism against blacks (as you see in Keung case) that is a lot more surprising. I guess the way to stop it from being surprising is to partition blacks into sub-cultures. Like if there is Ethiopian racism against Ghanas, that would be fine. But since -- presumably -- neither Keung nor Floid knows where their ancestors are from, thats why that won't apply.

But then again, you never know. *IF* someone were to discover that Keung is Ethiopian, Floyd is Ghanan, and Ethiopians hate Ghanas, that would be rather interesting :)


You are trying to simplify what is a complex set of concurrent set of values, thoughts and beliefs that people carry and often can be in dissonance to one another. It's really not surprising for a light skinned black person like Keung to have a history of being called names from school but then dislikes other black people because he feels white when he compares himself to George Floyd.