Page 2 of 4 [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

25 Sep 2020, 4:05 pm

No I believe with the power of science we can find a way to keep the planet habitable. Yeah its warming, that is already done...but may be possible to stop continuing damage and even reverse some that has already been done.

Of course to do that the nations of the world need to embrace science...so I guess we will see.


_________________
Tis the time to melt the Ice.


elbowgrease
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Aug 2017
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,514
Location: Arcata,CA

25 Sep 2020, 4:13 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Of course to do that the nations of the world need to embrace science...so I guess we will see.


Not just at the national level, though. I think that it's necessary for individuals to recognize and accept that we each have a part in the problem, and in the solution(s). Until that happens I don't think anything will really get done to deal with it. I do think it would help if leadership was on board, though.



vividgroovy
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 20 Dec 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 399
Location: Santa Maria, CA

25 Sep 2020, 11:29 pm

To me, its sort of like the fear of nuclear war during the Cold War. Yes, the bombs were real. Yes, we could have all been wiped out. Read or watch any sci-fi from the time period. Like, 1/3 of the episodes of the original "Twilight Zone" are about the fear of nuclear war. Apparently this was still a thing when I was growing up in the 1980s, but I was totally unaware of it. And yet here we all still are, worrying that something else is going to wipe us out.

What's interesting to me is that the fears of climate doom seemed to take over just exactly when people became less worried about nuclear war. (It could still happen, but most people aren't building bomb shelters in their basements these days.) The Berlin Wall fell in 1989. "Captain Planet" premiered in 1990, opening every episode with the line "our world is in peril." In "Superman IV: The Quest for Peace" (1987), Superman tries to end nuclear war while the villain and his cronies want to keep it going. In "Captain America" (1990), Captain America tries to save an environmentalist president from the villain and his cronies, who want to keep polluting. "The Day the Earth Stood Still," the famous 1951 anti-nuclear-war film, was remade in 2008 with an environmental message.

Again, this doesn't mean the threat isn't real. It's just interesting to me how we, as a society, seem to have a need to believe we're on the brink of doom. And what is the reason for both of these particular dooms? "Man's hubris." Except with the nuclear doom, the scientists were the example of hubris, messing with forces that should have been left alone. With the climate doom narrative, somehow the hubris belongs to the average person who drives to work in the morning, while the scientists are our saviors. (I have nothing against scientists either. I'm just talking about how the narrative is spun.)



magz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

26 Sep 2020, 2:40 am

Antrax wrote:
First of all thanks for asking the relevant question. I believe in climate change, I don't believe in climate doom based on a few points:

Timescale of climate change: We warm on average ~0.1 C per decade. Sea level rise is ~1 inch per decade. This is exceptionally fast on a geologic timescale but very slow on a human timescale.

Timescale of human innovation: In 70 years we went from unable to fly to landing on the moon. In a different 70 years the computing power that used to take an entire building of vacuum tubes can later be fit on a single computer chip.

In 70 years we may be ~0.7C warmer, and our sea levels may be ~7 inches higher, but I expect our ability to combat those challenges will be greatly improved.

From a pragmatic standpoint there's not really another option than trust we can innovate our way past these challenges. People advocating for major cuts in carbon output are generally unaware of the massive technological challenges in achieving that (its not nearly as simple as just build solar panels/wind mills and drive electric cars). People advocating for minor measures (like the Paris accords), by the climate models achieve almost nothing over a timescale of 70 years.

I'm certain that technological progress make human adaptability amazing but I'm more worried for the rest of the nature.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

26 Sep 2020, 2:59 am

Alien bookies will be taking bets to see whether pandemic or global warming or electing crazy people to run the world will kill us off first



magz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

26 Sep 2020, 3:18 am

cyberdad wrote:
Alien bookies will be taking bets to see whether pandemic or global warming or electing crazy people to run the world will kill us off first

My bet is option 3, five bucks :alien:


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

26 Sep 2020, 5:01 am

I agree, option 3 is likely the source of option 1



TheRobotLives
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,092
Location: Quiet, Dark, Comfy Spot

26 Sep 2020, 7:28 am

Climate change topics always end the same.

What can be done when people are the problem?


_________________
Then a hero comes along, with the strength to carry on, and you cast your fears aside, and you know you can survive.

Be the hero of your life.


Brictoria
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,998
Location: Melbourne, Australia

26 Sep 2020, 8:20 am

It would be so much easier to believe if the prophets weren't investing in ocean-front properties, or houses which required more resources to build and/or maintain than those of the people they are trying to pursuade to believe their prophecies...



magz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

26 Sep 2020, 8:42 am

People living up to what they preach are rare in general.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


shlaifu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 May 2014
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,659

26 Sep 2020, 5:42 pm

magz wrote:
Antrax wrote:
First of all thanks for asking the relevant question. I believe in climate change, I don't believe in climate doom based on a few points:

Timescale of climate change: We warm on average ~0.1 C per decade. Sea level rise is ~1 inch per decade. This is exceptionally fast on a geologic timescale but very slow on a human timescale.

Timescale of human innovation: In 70 years we went from unable to fly to landing on the moon. In a different 70 years the computing power that used to take an entire building of vacuum tubes can later be fit on a single computer chip.

In 70 years we may be ~0.7C warmer, and our sea levels may be ~7 inches higher, but I expect our ability to combat those challenges will be greatly improved.

From a pragmatic standpoint there's not really another option than trust we can innovate our way past these challenges. People advocating for major cuts in carbon output are generally unaware of the massive technological challenges in achieving that (its not nearly as simple as just build solar panels/wind mills and drive electric cars). People advocating for minor measures (like the Paris accords), by the climate models achieve almost nothing over a timescale of 70 years.

I'm certain that technological progress make human adaptability amazing but I'm more worried for the rest of the nature.


humans will try to adapt, certainly. Farmers in drought-prone areas will move to cities to find work, there will be famines and civil wars and refugees trying to move away from the equator ... oh, right, that's already happening.
There will be border walls and people drowning in the mediterranean or the British channel. there will be xenophobic governments, and in the meantime, the northern countries have to realize they can't keep farming like they are used to because of droughts and unusual and unpredictable weather.
and once parts of the world reach a wetbulb temperature of 40°, those parts will become inaccessible and uninhabitable.
insects will vanish. birds will vanish.
sea life will vanish. oh wait: all this is already happening, except oceanic animals are still around for a bit because ocean acidification is a bit slower.

yeah, humans will adapt, but it won't be pretty. "doom" is a question of definition. end of civilization as we not, yes.


on the upside: there will be a lot of jobs in the remaining agricultural sector, because someone has to replace pollinating insect.


_________________
I can read facial expressions. I did the test.


emotrtkey
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

Joined: 12 Aug 2020
Gender: Male
Posts: 445

26 Sep 2020, 5:52 pm

KikiKitty678 wrote:
It’s no debate anymore that the Earth is warming and that it’s caused by humans. People used to debate that, but now we clearly know that we’re causing climate change.


Evidence? All I've seen are intolerant liberals claiming that and silencing anyone who dissents from their opinions. Obama felt so strongly about climate change that he bought a $15 million house right on the ocean after his presidency ended that would get flooded if sea levels rose. The actions of the climate doomsayers shows they don't believe the propaganda they spew.



cberg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,183
Location: A swiftly tilting planet

26 Sep 2020, 5:55 pm

Do you not associate fire with heat?

There have been record wildfires on both sides of the planet for the last year.

We are not discussing "prophecies", we are discussing gridded numbers from infrared imaging satellites.


_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


Jiheisho
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2020
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,507

26 Sep 2020, 5:58 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
KikiKitty678 wrote:
It’s no debate anymore that the Earth is warming and that it’s caused by humans. People used to debate that, but now we clearly know that we’re causing climate change.


Evidence? All I've seen are intolerant liberals claiming that and silencing anyone who dissents from their opinions. Obama felt so strongly about climate change that he bought a $15 million house right on the ocean after his presidency ended that would get flooded if sea levels rose. The actions of the climate doomsayers shows they don't believe the propaganda they spew.


Perhaps you should look at the science. Just a thought...



emotrtkey
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

Joined: 12 Aug 2020
Gender: Male
Posts: 445

26 Sep 2020, 6:06 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
KikiKitty678 wrote:
It’s no debate anymore that the Earth is warming and that it’s caused by humans. People used to debate that, but now we clearly know that we’re causing climate change.


Evidence? All I've seen are intolerant liberals claiming that and silencing anyone who dissents from their opinions. Obama felt so strongly about climate change that he bought a $15 million house right on the ocean after his presidency ended that would get flooded if sea levels rose. The actions of the climate doomsayers shows they don't believe the propaganda they spew.


Perhaps you should look at the science. Just a thought...


I did. That's why I don't believe the propaganda. Neither do the people who push it. Perhaps you should look at the science instead of blindly believing whatever the liberal elites tell you to believe.



Jiheisho
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2020
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,507

26 Sep 2020, 6:22 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
KikiKitty678 wrote:
It’s no debate anymore that the Earth is warming and that it’s caused by humans. People used to debate that, but now we clearly know that we’re causing climate change.


Evidence? All I've seen are intolerant liberals claiming that and silencing anyone who dissents from their opinions. Obama felt so strongly about climate change that he bought a $15 million house right on the ocean after his presidency ended that would get flooded if sea levels rose. The actions of the climate doomsayers shows they don't believe the propaganda they spew.


Perhaps you should look at the science. Just a thought...


I did. That's why I don't believe the propaganda. Neither do the people who push it. Perhaps you should look at the science instead of blindly believing whatever the liberal elites tell you to believe.


This is from a guy that just said climate change is a hoax because Obama bought a house next to the ocean...