Why do people still not accept homosexuality today ?

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My two cents...

You don't have to be involved in the movement. Or actively in the life of someone who is gay (except if you have an obligation to care for them, such as a minor under your care). Not caring is fine, I consider an indifferent "eh" to coming out as a form of tolerance. I don't expect someone to jump up and down and shower me with streamers.

So long as you don't go out of your way to say hurtful things (calls to violence, demanding that your children can't know gay people exist, comments about potential segregation, refusing to serve a gay couple because they're gay) and / or physically or financially hurt (such as cutting off funds and leaving your child homeless, although this likely comes under physical hurt) then you're fine in my book.

Oh, and if someone comes out to you, don't pretend they didn't. Don't tell them that they're wrong or deliberately pretend that it didn't happen. It's fine if you forgot, but if they correct you and you keep making a persistent effort to ignore it then that's not going to be received well. For instance, if a gay guy introduces you to his boyfriend several times and you keep insisting "No, that's your friend", then at that point you're probably just being intentionally obtuse or difficult.

The main reason I come out to people is so I know that if I end up in a relationship, that person won't be disgusted or appalled. I'd rather cut ties with them early on if they're going to be like that. Plus, I might want to talk about crushes if it's a close friendship and the gender of said crush is likely to come up. Coming out isn't always a big thing, sometimes it's just a small passing comment.

Then I will relate my experiences with a short conundrum:

Q: Four people walk into a bar: A politician, a multi-level marketer, a pimp, and an existentialist. How do you find out which one is the gay person?

A: You wait about 3 seconds for the gay person to tell you.

So many gay (e.g., LGBTQ) people have done something similar to this -- perfect strangers identifying themselves as LGBTQ within a short time after our first meeting -- that my usual reaction is an indifferent 'eh'.

Does this make me an evil, awful homophobe?

I think that Homophobia often starts at school.
Bullies pick on kids for various reasons. Bullies often look for any differences or traits that stick out to pick on.

Perhaps some of the bullies pick up homophobic traits from parents, older siblings and even TV.

I think that for most kids this type of bullying isn't serious, perhaps just name calling etc.
Where some may take the bullying further.

Personally i am not homophobic. I think people are generally born homosexual.
Not something they have a choice on.

I think a lot of it had to do with people associating homosexuality with HIV/AIDS. Of course, religion plays a role in homophobia, particularly in the Middle East and much of Africa. For some, as with other forms of bigotry, it could stem from a bad personal experience with an LGBT person.

But we've come a long way. HIV has become increasingly treatable, some Christian and Jewish sects ordain LGBT clergy and perform same-sex weddings, and we've got more LGBT people in elected office than ever.

It is believed that James Buchanan, our 15th president, may have been gay or asexual. And we can't forget Mayor Pete!

Five countries, all in Europe, have had LGBT prime ministers.

Last edited by Tim_Tex on 04 Oct 2020, 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

How odd you act like you disagree but yet you agree at the same time.

Your question should also include:

Why are people still racist?
Why do men still do not accept the equality of women?

Can it simply be attributed to Human Nature? That is a disheartening thought, but one that I believe has some validity to it. Tribalism goes back to early humanoids and can be observed in the animal world today. Currently we have three primary tribes here in the United States, Democrats, Republicans, and those who just don't give a sh$#%t. Within those are hundreds of sub-tribes such as, conservatives, moderates, liberals, city dwellers, suburbanites, country folks and to the OP's original question there is a subset who believe that being a heterosexual is the only valid way to exist. If this theory of mine is indeed true, then the question is how do we change Human Nature? If you think this theory is a bunch dog poo? That is fine with me.

You also don't even need to teach your kids to be homophobic for them to be one. They can pick it up in school and learn "it's wrong." I picked up on it at school and I was confused about how it was wrong. But yet my dad's brother is gay and it never bothered me. I just didn't know what was so "wrong" with it.

Even those who are gay can also be homophobic as well because they were also taught it was "wrong" so they become the loudest homophobics of all because of their insecurity of them being gay and they don't want anyone to know they are gay.

Not disagreeing or agreeing.  I presented 6 situations that are obviously homophobic, 2 that I'm not sure of, and 1 that I know is not homophobic.

Can you give your opinion on the 2 "Not so obvious" situations?

If you mean like going to pride fairs, no. I personally find lot of it boring because it is just booths and flyers they hand out. But handing out candy and other free stuff is the reason why I would attend there. Same as if they are selling anything or have any games to play and you win prizes.

If you mean like putting up pride stuff in your social media pages, no.




If you are refusing to have anything to do with someone because of their sexuality, homophobia.

If you are not involved with someone because you don't have anything in common, you have social issues and problems relating to people or it just makes you anxious to be around anyone, not homophobia.

In regards to the two not so obvious examples above, I think there are probably nuances to given situations that would make it sway one way or another. That, or perhaps I don't understand the categories.

In terms of knowingly not being involved in the homosexual rights movement: This could be due to being incredibly active in some other activity such as parenting, trying to solve Fermat's Theorem (I know, it's already been done, but it took some decades of the best mathematical minds to do it), or being involved in another rights movement - as long as it did not conflict with gay rights. (Thinking here of the revolutionary black movement in the 60s in which the men told the black women to stay home and have lots of black babies.) In this type of case, I would think the individual described could not be legitimately described as homophobic.

But if one were not involved in the homosexual rights movement because one personally was opposed to homosexuality, then one would be accurately described as homophobic. But in that case, one already has the appellation. So, thinking here...the answer to this question would be, no.

Question 2: Knowingly being not involved in a homosexual person's life. Depends. If I disinherit a child because s/he is homosexual, then yes, I would be accurately described as a homophobe. But in theory, I might not like a person regardless of his/her sexual preference. For example, there was a man with CP on a board of directors that I was also serving on. The man was an a**hole, but no one could say so, because of his disability. (A couple of us whispered to each other that we really didn't like the man.) So, I might avoid someone who was homosexual because I did not like him/her, having nothing to do with the gender/sexual preference.

These are just initial stabs at the questions Fnord proposed. Discussion welcome. No particular ego set into these ramblings.

No. Some people may disagree with me on that, but in my opinion it does not.

Personally, the subject is unlikely to come up right away with someone I've just met. It might, if I'm talking to someone else who already knows at the same time in a group conversation and it's mentioned for whatever reason. There have been times where I've been introduced this way, such as "This is Lost_dragon, she's my lesbian friend", but that's usually when someone's trying to set me up. Such as "Oh hey, you're gay? Have I mentioned my friend, Lost_dragon is? You two should talk!"

However, the main exception to this has been in the LGBT society group I'm a part of, where it's fairly standard to mention it early on. In everyday situations though, not so much. Now, if someone were to just respond with an eh, I'd take that to mean they were OK with it and I'd change the subject to something else.

In my experience there's definitely people like Fnord's describing, although I'm willing to bet it's more common among adults who spent their whole lives closeted than people who've been out for ages, whether it's because they came out as youths or whatever. There's also as you describe people who get outed constantly by their well-meaning friends who either are hoping to help them find other queer people or who are hoping to show off their token friend or both.

It's likely messier than any of us can personally understand from recollections so I won't insist I have more insight than anyone else.

I like a little shift in tone away from people being homophobic, and instead that people can do homophobic things or hold homophobic thoughts. Many people grow out of old bad ideas, and a culture that pushes heteronormativity while othering queerness is going to make many people, even those who are homosexual themselves, have some bad thoughts set in.

There is this great video on Philosophy Tube, I think labelled "Transphobia", that introduces the concept of "Yer Dad". Yer Dad does not have to be your literal father, it does not have to be a man, does not have to be older than you. But Yer Dad will say something like "I am okay with the gays, I think that they should have the right to chose, but I just don't want it shoved down my throat". On the face that is a completely fine and accepting idea, that maybe they are okay with people 'choosing to be gay', but it holds that nugget of homophobia where they are not entirely accepting in the way that they see it as something as worthy as heterosexuality, that they would rather it not be in front of them. And I think that treatment of Yer Dad as something like a centrist opinion that can be defaulted as accepted, can be a part that continues homophobia.

I hold my position as someone who used to be a little homophobic thanks to the way culture used to be, moved past it by seeing that it was not a choice, became more uncomfortable with things like jokes at the expense of homosexual people, and still took ages before realising that I myself is bi. As much as the phrase exists that one cannot choose to be homosexual, I also can see how it can kind of be fairly easy for someone bisexual leaning to choose to keep that side locked up in the closet, and the subconscious anxiety and uncomfortable feelings they can experience when in proximity of homosexual stuff. There is the cliché that people who are most vocal against homophobia and it being a choice, are likely repressing their own feelings, and I think has credence. Not that I think the answer to everyone pushing something homophobic is to accuse them of being in denial.

Even if things are more open now, there is still enough incentive for people to still feel encouraged to be closeted, especially people who might be bisexual and that shows of homosexuality will make them uncomfortable and so act out. And I think there is good deal of things that can be done like calling people out on small expressions of homophobia, with the Yer Dads who complain about a gay couple kissing in public or on a tv show when they would have been fine with a straight couple. Often times these kinds of people will say that they are being called homophobic because they did not celebrate a gay couple or go to Pride, when really they were called out for expressing uncomfortableness and little double standards.

I think that the somewhat mocking of gay people like that they will tell everyone that they are gay, is somewhat of a problem too. Especially in a culture that has heteronormativity assumed. The kind of people that complain that LGBT people are bad for making it their entire personality, while they themselves just as equally make their heterosexuality their personality and don't see everything else about that person.

Obvious people are still trying wrap their heads around the idea of fitting a square peg into a round hole problem

( written just for fun ) sorry

This is why homophobia still exists: Churches and religion still exist. People take the bible way too seriously, which was written by a bunch of people thousands of years ago. I don't feel like talking about all the things that make it ridiculous, but you can look it up. There is LOTS out there that explain into detail why the bible is full of baloney, including of course, the claim that you will go to hell if you think of someone lustfully.

...or eat shrimps, or wear clothes made of mixed fibers
IMO, the interesting question is, why do people roll with one and not the other. I have yet to see anyone going boinkers because their neighbors eat shrimps, but plenty of people thing being gay is wrong.

As for what counts as homophobia, my 2 cents:
-if you knowingly discriminate against someone or behave hurtfully _precisely because_ they are gay, then it counts.
Otherwise, no. It's just silly to expect that we actively participate in every good movement under the sun -there's just too much wrongs in the world so it's ok to pick your battles.
And if you don't like someone who happens to be -among other things- gay, that's ok. Just as it's ok not to like a person of color, or a disabled person for non-discriminatory reasons. We aren't obliged to like everyone who can claim a minority status of some sort...

In fact, I have an embarrassing issue somewhat related. I have nothing against disabled people -quite on the contrary- but IRL, I freeze around them up to the point where I can only function at all if I behave as if I completely ignored them. I think the reason for this is that because of my own autism, it's overwhelmingly difficult for me to process their "non-standard" communication. I have the same problem with small children, actually. The only solutions I have found is to avoid such people (and make amends by defending equality in every way I can), and if in a situation where I can't escape, I disclose my autism...not fun, but IMO necessary so that people don't think I'm a horrible person... Which, I guess, is a long way of saying that sometimes one can appear pretty "phobic" even when they don't have such attitudes.