Trump removes senior defense officials & installs loyalists

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Pepe
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11 Nov 2020, 1:11 am

Tempus Fugit wrote:
Pepe wrote:
My educated guess is it is more left-wing hyperbole.
I will bet your left testicle that the fears are unfounded.
It is just a good way to keep the audience entertained. :mrgreen:
Image


Yep. Gotta milk the trumpmania cash cow for all it's worth. Time is running out. The goose that laid the golden eggs will fly the coop soon.


By George, I think he's got it! :mrgreen:



Last edited by magz on 11 Nov 2020, 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.: Potentially flaming cross-posting removed

Pepe
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11 Nov 2020, 1:14 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Who is the orange guy wanting to go to war with and why?

Whoever it is, it’s probably just to get the USA in DEEP trouble to hand off to Biden to have to deal with.. which means he could even go try to start a war with China.


According to CNN, he wants to create a dictatorship. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:



Pepe
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11 Nov 2020, 1:18 am

Brictoria wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Who is the orange guy wanting to go to war with and why?


He better pick someone soon, as if he doesn't he'll be the first president in many years (since Nixon) to not have initiated one...
Source: https://www.historyguy.com/wars_by_president.htm


What? Are you saying he is a whacky businessman and not a whacky warmonger? :scratch:
How dare he break the American tradition. :mrgreen:



Pepe
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11 Nov 2020, 1:24 am

Tempus Fugit wrote:
Trump creating his own military loyal only to him so that he can stay in power has been a long running theme.


Bwahahahaha!
He already has 10 divisions of Russian crack troops, in the wing, just waiting for the word to activate a coup. :mrgreen:



Tempus Fugit
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11 Nov 2020, 2:48 am

Pepe wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
Trump creating his own military loyal only to him so that he can stay in power has been a long running theme.


Bwahahahaha!
He already has 10 divisions of Russian crack troops, in the wing, just waiting for the word to activate a coup. :mrgreen:


That's right, I forgot, he's keeping the oval office chair warm for Vlad.



Mona Pereth
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11 Nov 2020, 4:23 am

There are several reasons to be concerned:

1) In general, the Trump administration has had a very unusually high turnover in the top ranks of various parts of the executive branch, especially in both the Defense department and the Justice department.

2) Trump is noted for unusually intense demands for personal loyalty. See, for example:

- ‘I Need Loyalty’ by Michael Kruse, Politico, March/April 2018.
- Trump Reportedly Offered John Kelly FBI Director Job If He Pledged Loyalty by Matt Stieb, New York Magazine, August 2020.

3) Trump has recently stepped up his efforts to re-shape the entire federal government to echo his personal views at the expense of expertise. See Trump’s Order Sets the Stage for Loyalty Tests for Thousands of Feds by Donald F. Kettl, Government Executive, October 22, 2020. ("The president’s executive order sweeps aside 140 years of federal policy promoting professional expertise.")

4) The specific person whom Trump picked to become "become the top policy official at the Pentagon" is a highly controversial individual who, earlier, was rejected, even by the Republican-dominated Senate. According to the CNN article:

Quote:
A controversial Trump administration pick for a top Pentagon post has been placed into a senior role days after his nomination hearing was canceled amid bipartisan opposition to his nomination.

Retired Army Brig. Gen. Anthony Tata has formally withdrawn his nomination to be the Defense Department undersecretary of defense for policy and has been designated "the official Performing the Duties of the Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Policy reporting to the Acting Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Dr. James Anderson," a Pentagon spokesperson said in a statement.

When the nomination hearing for Tata was canceled Thursday, President Donald Trump told aides the plan was to put him in a position he could have without a confirmation hearing, according to a source familiar with the discussions. The role he'll be in now is essentially the deputy of the role he had been nominated for.


5) More generally, due to all of the above, plus Trump's apparent determination to stay in office no matter what, there is reason to be concerned about the possibility that Trump is trying to become a dictator. Hopefully he won't succeed, but there is reason to be concerned.


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naturalplastic
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11 Nov 2020, 5:12 am

Pepe wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Trump administration removes senior defense officials and installs loyalists, triggering alarm at Pentagon by Barbara Starr, Zachary Cohen and Ryan Browne, CNN, Tue November 10, 2020. The second and third paragraphs say:

Quote:
The flurry of changes, announced by the Department of Defense in a statement roughly 24 hours after President Donald Trump fired Defense Secretary Mark Esper, have put officials inside the Pentagon on edge and fueled a growing sense of alarm among military and civilian officials, who are concerned about what could come next.

Four senior civilian officials have been fired or have resigned since Monday, including Esper, his chief of staff and the top officials overseeing policy and intelligence. They were replaced by perceived Trump loyalists, including a controversial figure who promoted fringe conspiracy theories and called former President Barack Obama a terrorist.

This article also says, 'Concerns are growing that a chaotic transition period could undermine national security,' and '"This is scary, it's very unsettling," one defense official told CNN. "These are dictator moves."'

The "controversial figure" is Anthony Tata, about whom see: Trump Installs Senate-Rejected Retired General As Pentagon Policy Chief by Marcus Weisgerber and Katie Bo Williams, Defense ONe, November 10, 2020:

Quote:
President Trump’s deeply controversial nominee to become the top policy official at the Pentagon, rejected by the Senate over the summer, will assume the duties of the post following the resignation of former acting policy chief James Anderson earlier on Tuesday.

...

In June, Trump named Tata to the top policy post, but could not persuade the Senate Armed Services Committee to usher him to the floor for a vote. Tata drew fire for falsely saying that former President Barack Obama was a “terrorist leader” and a Muslim.


My educated guess is it is more left-wing hyperbole.
I will bet your left testicle that the fears are unfounded.
It is just a good way to keep the audience entertained. :mrgreen:
Image


Could you walk us through this step by step and explain?

Trump does not make money from selling movie tickets - so why does he seek to "entertain" anyone by doing this?

If entertainment were what he was going for why not make Lady Gaga secy of defence? Or Kanye West?



Last edited by magz on 11 Nov 2020, 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.: Potentially flaming cross-posting removed

Mona Pereth
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11 Nov 2020, 2:50 pm

Another Official Dismissed at the Pentagon as Trump Continues Unusual Shake-Up by Lee Fang, The Intercept, November 11 2020

Quote:
The sweeping dismissal of Pentagon officials, an overhaul that began on Monday with President Donald Trump’s sudden firing of Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, has continued. The Intercept has learned that Mark Tomb, the deputy chief of staff to the undersecretary of defense for policy, was ousted from his position yesterday.

...

... no president in recent memory has made such sweeping changes to the Pentagon’s leadership during a presidential transition period. The unusual shake-up has unsettled observers of the military who fear further politicization of the government.

The firings also make way for controversial figures who are seen as far more dutiful in protecting Trump and carrying out his agenda. Anderson was swiftly replaced on Tuesday with Brig. Gen. Anthony Tata, a former Fox News contributor who had been previously nominated for the Pentagon’s top policy job.


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11 Nov 2020, 6:21 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
Trump creating his own military loyal only to him so that he can stay in power has been a long running theme.


Wasn't there a similar theme started in 2016 where people were claiming he would lead the U.S.A. into new wars if he was elected?

There was a similar theme in 1935.


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Brictoria
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11 Nov 2020, 6:44 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
Trump creating his own military loyal only to him so that he can stay in power has been a long running theme.


Wasn't there a similar theme started in 2016 where people were claiming he would lead the U.S.A. into new wars if he was elected?

There was a similar theme in 1935.


Any possibility you could elaborate: I thought that elections (and hence related change of President) only occurred every 4 years in the U.S.A., so that would be an annomolous year for a presidential change (with associated concerns the new president would be leading the U.S.A. into new wars), given that this is what is under discussion.

Some reference material (news articles showing where there were concerns that the new\potential new President of the U.S.A. was likely to cause new wars to start, for example) would certainly help with confirmation of your claim...



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11 Nov 2020, 7:33 pm

The Germans noticed the similarity to "Mein fuhrer" back in 2016
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37895601

Then during his term in office
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ys-fascism

And now with the attack on the voting process it again echoes those dark days of the 1930s in Germany
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rmany.html

There's 70 million Americans who need to do some soul searching that they would put their trust in a madman.



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11 Nov 2020, 7:34 pm

There is one thing to consider.  Donald Trump, being not a veteran, seems to be operating under the assumption that all military people will blindly follow their leaders, no matter what.

This assumption is invalid.

Military members will blindly follow their leaders when:

1. There is no other option (We already have Joseph Biden).
2. The leader is a military hero (Donald Trump is a draft-dodger).
3. The enemy is already on the run (We are not the enemy, and we are staying put).
4. The war is over and everybody is going home (The Second Civil War has not even started).
5. The leader is in the hearse at the head of the procession (Not likely, and not any time soon).

Replacing the defense officials with people loyal to Mr. Trump will only serve to further alienate the real military members and veterans, especially the Chiefs of Staff.

Let Mr. Trump try to enact Martial Law.  Then we can all watch the military stage a coup and install Mr. Biden as the lawfully-elected president instead.

Only 70 more days until Mr. Biden is sworn in anyway, so if Mr. Trump is going to do something stupid, then he had better do it soon.

:wink: I mean, something even more stupid than anything he has already done so far.


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Pepe
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11 Nov 2020, 7:39 pm

Tempus Fugit wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
Trump creating his own military loyal only to him so that he can stay in power has been a long running theme.


Bwahahahaha!
He already has 10 divisions of Russian crack troops, in the wing, just waiting for the word to activate a coup. :mrgreen:


That's right, I forgot, he's keeping the oval office chair warm for Vlad.


Well, someone has to keep the seat warm.
Vlad, the lad, is a very kool kookie.



Pepe
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11 Nov 2020, 7:42 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
There are several reasons to be concerned:

1) In general, the Trump administration has had a very unusually high turnover in the top ranks of various parts of the executive branch, especially in both the Defense department and the Justice department.


As Trump has said, some of the high ranking people don't like him because he *isn't* a warmonger. :wink:



cyberdad
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11 Nov 2020, 7:42 pm

I think its no secret that Trump draws more support from white male veterans than from any other cohort in the American public. Just check the election data.



Pepe
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11 Nov 2020, 7:46 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Trump administration removes senior defense officials and installs loyalists, triggering alarm at Pentagon by Barbara Starr, Zachary Cohen and Ryan Browne, CNN, Tue November 10, 2020. The second and third paragraphs say:

Quote:
The flurry of changes, announced by the Department of Defense in a statement roughly 24 hours after President Donald Trump fired Defense Secretary Mark Esper, have put officials inside the Pentagon on edge and fueled a growing sense of alarm among military and civilian officials, who are concerned about what could come next.

Four senior civilian officials have been fired or have resigned since Monday, including Esper, his chief of staff and the top officials overseeing policy and intelligence. They were replaced by perceived Trump loyalists, including a controversial figure who promoted fringe conspiracy theories and called former President Barack Obama a terrorist.

This article also says, 'Concerns are growing that a chaotic transition period could undermine national security,' and '"This is scary, it's very unsettling," one defense official told CNN. "These are dictator moves."'

The "controversial figure" is Anthony Tata, about whom see: Trump Installs Senate-Rejected Retired General As Pentagon Policy Chief by Marcus Weisgerber and Katie Bo Williams, Defense ONe, November 10, 2020:

Quote:
President Trump’s deeply controversial nominee to become the top policy official at the Pentagon, rejected by the Senate over the summer, will assume the duties of the post following the resignation of former acting policy chief James Anderson earlier on Tuesday.

...

In June, Trump named Tata to the top policy post, but could not persuade the Senate Armed Services Committee to usher him to the floor for a vote. Tata drew fire for falsely saying that former President Barack Obama was a “terrorist leader” and a Muslim.


My educated guess is it is more left-wing hyperbole.
I will bet your left testicle that the fears are unfounded.
It is just a good way to keep the audience entertained. :mrgreen:
Image


Could you walk us through this step by step and explain?

Trump does not make money from selling movie tickets - so why does he seek to "entertain" anyone by doing this?

If entertainment were what he was going for why not make Lady Gaga secy of defence? Or Kanye West?


Say, what? :scratch:

I was saying the left-wing media was using hyperbole to entertain the *******. :mrgreen: