Who was the true enemy of WW2? Hitler or Stalin ?

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funeralxempire
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18 Dec 2020, 4:11 pm

From who's perspective? I mean, from a certain perspective one could insist the Jewish people and left-wingers were the enemy during WWII.


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18 Dec 2020, 4:11 pm

Both were amateurs.

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Pepe
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18 Dec 2020, 4:13 pm

Himmler was the architect of "The Final Solution".
Shouldn't he be given a dishonourable mention? :scratch:



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18 Dec 2020, 4:17 pm

Pepe wrote:
Himmler was the architect of "The Final Solution".
Shouldn't he be given a dishonourable mention? :scratch:


And without the evil genius of his lieutenant, Reinhard Heydrich, Himmler would have just been an ambitious bureaucrat.


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18 Dec 2020, 4:18 pm

Pepe wrote:
Himmler was the architect of "The Final Solution".
Shouldn't he be given a dishonourable mention? :scratch:

Himmler answered to Hitler (just as Heydrich - the engineer of "The Final Solution" - answered to Himmler).



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18 Dec 2020, 8:25 pm

magz wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
Hitler. That swine had no respect for the sanctity of human life.

On this, the two didn't really differ.


They were both evil swines.


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funeralxempire
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18 Dec 2020, 8:29 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
magz wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
Hitler. That swine had no respect for the sanctity of human life.

On this, the two didn't really differ.


They were both evil swines.


That's kinda unfair, pigs haven't committed mass murder. :nerdy:


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19 Dec 2020, 5:57 am

GGPViper wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Himmler was the architect of "The Final Solution".
Shouldn't he be given a dishonourable mention? :scratch:

Himmler answered to Hitler (just as Heydrich - the engineer of "The Final Solution" - answered to Himmler).


Hitler was a wuss and didn't want to know about such matters, based on what I have read.
The original plan was to strip the Jews of their wealth and have them emigrate.
Unfortunately, other countries were not prepared to take so many people, hence the later laws regarding refugees.

Please provide *evidence* if what I have read is mistaken. 8)



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19 Dec 2020, 6:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Without a doubt Hitler, while Stalin was only an ally out of necessity.


Stalin murdered over 20 million of his own people.
Stalin was definitely a contender. 8)
But neither compared to Mao. 8O

Quote:
Remembering the biggest mass murder in the history of the world.

Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... r-his-due/



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19 Dec 2020, 8:44 am

magz wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
Hitler. That swine had no respect for the sanctity of human life.

On this, the two didn't really differ.


They probably never heard of the Katyn massacre.



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19 Dec 2020, 9:00 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
magz wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
Hitler. That swine had no respect for the sanctity of human life.

On this, the two didn't really differ.

They probably never heard of the Katyn massacre.

My grandfather escaped from a transport there.


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19 Dec 2020, 9:25 am

magz wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
magz wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
Hitler. That swine had no respect for the sanctity of human life.

On this, the two didn't really differ.

They probably never heard of the Katyn massacre.

My grandfather escaped from a transport there.

Image

National Katyn Memorial Foundation


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19 Dec 2020, 9:44 am

Hitler including the Axis, and Imperial Japan were the true enemies of WWII.

Stalin was an enemy to those subjugated by the Soviet Union. I would include Russians as Stalin was not himself a Russian. I don't know how most people in today's Russia view Stalin but I have the impression that in Georgia many still revere him as a national hero. He died in 1953 so anything that took place later wasn't his direct responsibility. I believe that most deaths we can attribute to him directly took place before WWII, were politically motivated and were not (as another poster mentioned) a case of exterminating people specifically because of their ethnic ancestry, although it may have worked out that way at times. He was killing people he believed to be enemies. Trump would probably do the same under similar circumstances. Stalin wasn't that different from other world "leaders" in that regard, he simply managed to achieve a much higher body count than anybody else.

The situation becomes much more nuanced when you consider what actually happened in WWII. Even Western Europeans who survived WWII have no real idea how dreadfully people in the Soviet Union suffered during Hitler's invasion, and I would suggest that modern-day Russia's failure to appear as a full partner to other world democracies such as they are, is largely due to a sense on their part that the superpowers simply don't give a toss about this history, meaning that Russia has been and always will be on its own. That and a sense that they had market capitalism shoved down their throats after the fall of the Soviet Union, but as this has little to do with Stalin I'll end my argument there.


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19 Dec 2020, 11:07 am

MaxE wrote:
Hitler including the Axis, and Imperial Japan were the true enemies of WWII.

Stalin was an enemy to those subjugated by the Soviet Union. I would include Russians as Stalin was not himself a Russian. I don't know how most people in today's Russia view Stalin but I have the impression that in Georgia many still revere him as a national hero. He died in 1953 so anything that took place later wasn't his direct responsibility. I believe that most deaths we can attribute to him directly took place before WWII, were politically motivated and were not (as another poster mentioned) a case of exterminating people specifically because of their ethnic ancestry, although it may have worked out that way at times. He was killing people he believed to be enemies. Trump would probably do the same under similar circumstances. Stalin wasn't that different from other world "leaders" in that regard, he simply managed to achieve a much higher body count than anybody else.

The situation becomes much more nuanced when you consider what actually happened in WWII. Even Western Europeans who survived WWII have no real idea how dreadfully people in the Soviet Union suffered during Hitler's invasion, and I would suggest that modern-day Russia's failure to appear as a full partner to other world democracies such as they are, is largely due to a sense on their part that the superpowers simply don't give a toss about this history, meaning that Russia has been and always will be on its own. That and a sense that they had market capitalism shoved down their throats after the fall of the Soviet Union, but as this has little to do with Stalin I'll end my argument there.


There is still a cult of Stalin in modern day Russia, stoked very publicly by Putin.


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19 Dec 2020, 11:17 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
There is still a cult of Stalin in modern day Russia, stoked very publicly by Putin.

This is not very surprising, in fact I can't honestly say that I care one way or the other, except to say that no matter what country you live in, you have to recognize that people in other countries don't always see things the same way as in your country, even when you may have believed that the whole world shared that view.


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19 Dec 2020, 11:33 am

MaxE wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There is still a cult of Stalin in modern day Russia, stoked very publicly by Putin.

This is not very surprising, in fact I can't honestly say that I care one way or the other, except to say that no matter what country you live in, you have to recognize that people in other countries don't always see things the same way as in your country, even when you may have believed that the whole world shared that view.


It's all about Russian nationalism for Putin, even if it means elevating a mass murderer like Stalin, because Putin sees this as a return to the glory days of the Soviet Union.


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