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Antifa vs Capitol Hill

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Fnord
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08 Jan 2021, 1:03 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
Quick, look over there!
It's an antifa!


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Jiheisho
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08 Jan 2021, 1:11 pm

QFT wrote:
But now think back to antifa riots this Sumner and how the Democrats weren't willing to condemn them.


Are you talking about the peaceful BLM protests? You know, the ones Trump responded to with troops and tear gas. What exactly is there to condemn?

Or are you talking about antifa protestors that turned out to confront the racist groups like the Proud Boys? Personally, I don't like violence, but I don't support white supremacy either. But perhaps you support white supremacists and so you don't like them being challenged?

But lets not get into false equivalency. Conservative are the drivers here. And their racism is on full display. I don't see conservative upset when armed protestors overran the Michigan Statehouse. No tear gas used there. No Federal troops were sent.

America is falling apart, but lets be clear on the primary driver. That is the GOP and the right-wing media and their move to authoritarianism and embrace of white supremacy. Even now they are in denial and trying to blame antifa for the insurrection on our Capital. Why don't conservative ever take responsibility for their policies? (Look at how those here praised Rittenhouse when he went armed to a protest and murdered people. No, your moral equivalency is just disgusting.)



Last edited by Jiheisho on 08 Jan 2021, 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

madbutnotmad
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08 Jan 2021, 1:14 pm

I have always considered riots to be extremely ineffective methodology to facilitate change in the world.
I have been to a riot before, which started as a peaceful protest march.

When the peaceful march turned into a riot, i didn't enjoy the atmosphere, which must have been in some ways to what old fashion warfare must be like before guns were invented.

I think that is why some people like riots, because of the adrenaline buzz they get.

Although, i personally believe using violence to achieve political goals on a national or international level is fascist by nature regardless as to what political idealism the violence instigators subscribe to.

But how do you change the oppositions mindset and behaviour without violence? Especially if they use violence themselves.

Coming from a martial art perspective, I see violence is the last resort and to be used for self defence or defense of the innocent and only in appropriate measures. Being a martial artist means we have responsibility to not be a bully, apart from to protect the innocent from those who are.



Fnord
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08 Jan 2021, 1:15 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
... Why don't conservatives ever take responsibility for their policies?
Because it is easier for them to blame non-existent antifa bogeymen than to admit their own lack of effective planning due to reliance upon false data and faulty reasoning.


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08 Jan 2021, 1:23 pm

On 6 January 2021, the seat of both legislative houses of parliament for the Unites States of America - for the first time in more than 206 years since 24 August 1814 during the Burning of Washington - was breached, resulting in (so far) the death of 5 individuals.

As such, elected officials representing 50 states and 331 million people were effectively unable to exercise their authority as stipulated in Article I (sections I-X) and Article II (section I) in the US constitution for the duration of the breach.

This was evidently also the very purpose of the breach itself, which occurred while Congress was finalizing one of the most critical functions of the US political system: The election of the President of the United States by the People of the United States - again as stipulated in Article II (section I).

It took 13,000 casualties in the American Revolutionary War to establish these articles in the US constitution and more than 600,000 casualties in the American Civil War to uphold them.

... and this is comparable to a bunch of Antifa brats stealing TVs and burning cars?



Biscuitman
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08 Jan 2021, 1:27 pm

They are trying to make it sound comparable simply as a divert tactic.



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08 Jan 2021, 1:32 pm

"Do not look at me busting in to this government building!  Look over there at those antifas having a quiet picnic in the park!  (At least, that is what they want you to think!)"


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Tim_Tex
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08 Jan 2021, 1:39 pm

Gun control isn’t enough anymore. We need a total gun ban.

The right-wingers who say “Them libruhls are gunna take muh guns” are the ones who *need* their guns taken away the most.


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08 Jan 2021, 1:40 pm

GGPViper wrote:
On 6 January 2021, the seat of both legislative houses of parliament for the Unites States of America - for the first time in more than 206 years since 24 August 1814 during the Burning of Washington - was breached, resulting in (so far) the death of 5 individuals.

As such, elected officials representing 50 states and 331 million people were effectively unable to exercise their authority as stipulated in Article I (sections I-X) and Article II (section I) in the US constitution for the duration of the breach.

This was evidently also the very purpose of the breach itself, which occurred while Congress was finalizing one of the most critical functions of the US political system: The election of the President of the United States by the People of the United States - again as stipulated in Article II (section I).

It took 13,000 casualties in the American Revolutionary War to establish these articles in the US constitution and more than 600,000 casualties in the American Civil War to uphold them.

... and this is comparable to a bunch of Antifa brats stealing TVs and burning cars?


I don't understand why this doesn't bother people. The capitol was just partially sacked and another branch of government attacked by white supremacists at the behest of the 'president'.



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08 Jan 2021, 1:41 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
QFT wrote:
But now think back to antifa riots this Sumner and how the Democrats weren't willing to condemn them.


Are you talking about the peaceful BLM protests? You know, the ones Trump responded to with troops and tear gas. What exactly is there to condemn?

Or are you talking about antifa protestors that turned out to confront the racist groups like the Proud Boys? Personally, I don't like violence, but I don't support white supremacy either. But perhaps you support white supremacists and so you don't like them being challenged?

But lets not get into false equivalency. Conservative are the drivers here. And their racism is on full display. I don't see conservative upset when armed protestors overran the Michigan Statehouse. No tear gas used there. No Federal troops were sent.

America is falling apart, but lets be clear on the primary driver. That is the GOP and the right-wing media and their move to authoritarianism and embrace of white supremacy. Even now they are in denial and trying to blame antifa for the insurrection on our Capital. Why don't conservative ever take responsibility for their policies? (Look at how those here praised Rittenhouse when he went armed to a protest and murdered people. No, your moral equivalency is just disgusting.)



Before Trump, I had no idea out country was ran on white supremacy. Trump sure showed that and people showed their true colors. I at first just thought many people were naïve and uneducated but now I know better. Many people have disappointed me.

I am done being nice here about Trump lovers. I'm done coddling their feelings and catering to them. I was done like two years ago.

People can keep wearing their rose colored glasses about our country. I will leave mine off.

Face it everyone, America is ran by white supremists and has been a white supremist country. The moment the land was discovered was when white supremacy began when they started taking Native Americans land and shooting them like wild animals.


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08 Jan 2021, 1:50 pm

QFT wrote:
As you probably heard, a lot of Trump allies disassociated themselves from him and called for his removal from office due to the riots he encouraged.

But now think back to antifa riots this Sumner and how the Democrats weren't willing to condemn them. Sure, Republicans and perhaps independents condemned them. But I am not talking about that. I am asking how many people are willing to condemn their own party. Because we saw a lot of *Republicans* condemning Capitol Hill event. So the natural question is how many *Democrats* were condemning what antifa did this summer.

This seems to suggest that Republicans are more willing to condemn their own, at least when it comes to violence. Maybe not other things though. I mean Republicans did make lots of excuses for Trump in other areas. But at least in case of violence they do appear to be more self critical than Democrats.

Also note that antifa riots lasted the whole summer while Capitol Hill riot lasted only few hours. Also antifa riots resulted in permanent damage to property while in case of Capitol Hill they just met few hours later. Yes the capitol Hill killed four people. I don't know if antifa killed anyone but I would guess they probably did and probably a lot more than four, although I agree it is just a guess.



When did antifa attack the Capitol to overturn the results of a fairly contested election? Can you link to that news story, I don't seem to remember it?

Since when was antifa associated with the Democrats? They don't carry Hillary 2016 flags while ransacking, unlike the goons waving Trump 2020 flags while rioting.

Like many posters have pointed out already, you're doing a poor job of creating a false equivalency between dissimilar things.


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08 Jan 2021, 1:51 pm

League_Girl wrote:
... Face it everyone, America is run by white supremists and has been a white supremist country. The moment the land was discovered was when white supremacy began when they started taking Native Americans land and shooting them like wild animals.
I most respectfully disagree, but only in part.

America is run by wealthy, straight, cis-male, Christian, white supremists and has been a wealthy, straight, cis-male, Christian white supremist country. The moment the land was discovered was when wealthy, straight, cis-male, Christian, white supremacy began... (et cetera).

Let's tell it like it is: People voted for Trump because they were afraid that Atheists, Communists, Feminists, Foreigners, Liberals, Minorities, Queerfolk, Socialists, and Women would topple the regime of wealthy, straight, cis-male, Christian, white supremacists, undermine their "traditional" moral values, and ruin their "traditional" American way of life.


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08 Jan 2021, 1:54 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
With Capitol Hill, at least nothing was looted, set ablaze, or plundered.


Wrong. The damage is still being assessed as of the relevant news stories I looked at, but there was indeed physical damage including many broken windows and miscellaneous damage to congressional offices (see news stories here and here),. There was also some theft of and/or damage to computer equipment (see news stories here and here and here).


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Jiheisho
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08 Jan 2021, 2:06 pm

^^ This



Mona Pereth
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08 Jan 2021, 2:08 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Biden has condemned left wing violence a number of times.


Indeed. For those who think otherwise, see news stories here and here.


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08 Jan 2021, 2:09 pm

Feyokien wrote:
I don't understand why this doesn't bother people.  The capitol was just partially sacked and another branch of government attacked by white supremacists at the behest of the 'president'.
Oh, trust me when I say that it bothers the ever-loving ████ out of me!

And only partially because the local police essentially stood by and let it all happen -- at least, when they were not taking selfies with Trump's own terrorists!


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