04 Feb 2021, 6:51 pm
04 Feb 2021, 7:05 pm
League_Girl wrote:
I see this "agenda" being thrown around and I always wonder "what agenda?" The agenda for advocating for human rights? The rights to allow trans people to have access to treatment for their dysphoria and trying to stop misinformation from being spread about it? To stop police brutality against black people? To get more people aware of systemic racism? People act like this is all a bad thing when they say they have an agenda. Trying to get people to understand drug addiction and it's not just a matter of making poor choices? Trying to get people to understand how to stop being poor is not that simple and no one chooses to be poor or there would be no poor people?
One thing that annoys me in political discussions is when people try to police my language about myself. I can call myself high functioning all I want. I am high functioning. What gives them the right to criticize anyone who decides to call themselves high functioning? Then they use that against you telling you you have no right to your views if you call yourself high functioning and you don't get to speak about disabilities.
And another thing, you can't change someone's mind, they will only change their mind if they decide to seek that information out themselves. Asking questions to be educated, lot of people are not going to try and educate you because many of them are burned out from willful ignorance and it's impossible to tell if someone is asking in good faith. I once joined a reddit sub called gendercriticaldebates I don't remember the exact name but anyway I subbed there thinking this was for gender critical to ask trans people in good faith to change their minds and for cis people to ask too and after I had been subbed there and after finding myself being downvoted and also getting into a couple arguments and reading other threads, I saw this was just a sub to argue with trans people about their existence and accuse them of gender stereotyping and being misoginysts. This was another TERF sub and they just wants to argue with trans people and not be educated, not try and be understanding, just argue to be right and make trans allies and trans people look stupid. That sub appears to be gone now. And I do think gender critical people will play dumb so you will contradict yourself, confuse you, make you look stupid. eg. "wait, so gender is like having nick names" deliberately missing the point. Then you will be exhausted, you give up and they "win." This was totally a bad faith sub.
One thing that annoys me in political discussions is when people try to police my language about myself. I can call myself high functioning all I want. I am high functioning. What gives them the right to criticize anyone who decides to call themselves high functioning? Then they use that against you telling you you have no right to your views if you call yourself high functioning and you don't get to speak about disabilities.
And another thing, you can't change someone's mind, they will only change their mind if they decide to seek that information out themselves. Asking questions to be educated, lot of people are not going to try and educate you because many of them are burned out from willful ignorance and it's impossible to tell if someone is asking in good faith. I once joined a reddit sub called gendercriticaldebates I don't remember the exact name but anyway I subbed there thinking this was for gender critical to ask trans people in good faith to change their minds and for cis people to ask too and after I had been subbed there and after finding myself being downvoted and also getting into a couple arguments and reading other threads, I saw this was just a sub to argue with trans people about their existence and accuse them of gender stereotyping and being misoginysts. This was another TERF sub and they just wants to argue with trans people and not be educated, not try and be understanding, just argue to be right and make trans allies and trans people look stupid. That sub appears to be gone now. And I do think gender critical people will play dumb so you will contradict yourself, confuse you, make you look stupid. eg. "wait, so gender is like having nick names" deliberately missing the point. Then you will be exhausted, you give up and they "win." This was totally a bad faith sub.
Yeah, but more from the other side tbh.
I feel like people who are against all that (so, the anti-sjw crew) have their own 'agenda'.
Some people sure, might not get it. In fact, the only 'cis' person I know of online who I thought 'wow [she] really gets trans stuff!' came out as trans this week. I mean - sure, good for her. But my cis friend was watching it and her interpretation of what she was saying felt totally different to mine... Makes me wonder how much cis people can actually understand about trans issues?
But some people are either bigots (when it comes to social stuff) or deliberately harmful (when it comes to other stuff). Or they have some wild ideas (when it comes to anti-science stuff) & it just becomes a case where I'm arguing with someone who isn't listening. Arguing to win. When neither will give up. Like two dogs fighting over a bone.
I have an agenda sure, it's similar to what you're describing.
But they have one too.
Everyone has one.
And unless you're talented - what's the point arguing it online with your opponents? Why not just talk to people who generally agree or avoid talking politics online and only talk it face to face or start a blog or vlog etc?
Some people (my heroine haha) are really super talented at talking to people, meeting them on their wave length, changing minds etc. But the rest of us? It can sometimes just lead to burnout and be pointless.
Everything I watched on youtube at one point was politics. I've varied it now, more dark academia stuff and literature and things like that and it feels a lot more relaxed and chill.
I want to get like that on here and talk about less stressful stuff than sports & politics on twitter/reddit. No more arguing. But this isn't me giving up/surrendering. It's me deciding to talk to irl people when stuff crops up/make artistic stuff which reflects my values, rather than wasting hours online in debates which lead nowhere.
04 Feb 2021, 8:58 pm
05 Feb 2021, 10:41 am
aghogday wrote:
Why Get into An Argument at All...
People Like to Feel Bigger Than they
Currently Are; Competition Gives
Them That Shot of Neurochemical/
Neurohormone When They FEEL
SENSE they win in any Human
Competition, Yes For Real
To Increase Perceived
Status in Terms More
Materially Reductionist
of Dopamine, Serotonin;
Yes, The Empathy of Oxytocin
one Feels As A Team Ya Bond
With In Perceived Ideals and Facts
Is Winning A Game And Or A Debate at Hand...
Other Neurohormones include Epinephrine, Endorphins,
And Androgens And Estrogens; And Various Other Unnamed;
Or Perhaps Not Even Named Yet Neurohormones and Neurochemicals
As a Synergy of Feeling and Sensing Life We Individually Create Within...
So What's the Short
Cut to Not Having
To Feel/Sense We
Must Compete to Breathe...
AHa, Generate Our Own Neurochemicals,
Neurohormones Within; Become The Painter, Brush,
Paint, And Masterpeace Painting Within With Our Own
Hand
of Humanity's
Greatest Art A
Soul Complete With
All That's Left to Do is
Give and Share Freely
With Least Harm
Who Knows
Ya (me) Might Public Dance
Half Way Around the World
in Distance And More; Soon Write
A 9 MiLLioN Word Longest Long Form EPiC Poem
That is only A Compilation of Giving And Sharing
Free to Folks Around the World For Others to Benefit From Again...
Indeed, this Autotelic Flow of Heaven Within Generated As Art unto
Heaven Within to Give And Share Free to Others even More with Bountiful
Divine
And
Holy
Sacred
Frission That's
Real Putting the
Theism in Realism For
ReaL This Heaven Now Within to
Give and Share For Free totally
Backed Up By Science As REAL...
Meanwhile, 'Mozart'
And 'Van Gogh',
'Beethoven',
'Einstein',
And
'Da
Vinci',
Are
Still Playing
'Candy Crush'
With 'Forrest Gump;
At A Bus Stop to Win; Just totally
Lost from Most of Human Potential...
Key is Being Enough Within to do more now...
Not Having to compete; Just Becoming More of a Butterfly Flight Free...
i don't come here to debate.. i come here to listen to my Soul Dance and Sing
i 'Thought this
Was A Place
For Philosophers...
Not for What has been done before....
Thing is, i don't don't have to think to do this.. Just do it now in Effortless Ease of Flow..
Let the Dance And Song Do the Dancing And Singing; Give All the Worry A Vacation
Never Needing to come back...
Is it Possible:
Yes.
Is It Probable
From What i've Seen: sadly no...
Somethings Sadly Just don't change; Age to Age, in Life For Real Now
Where Winning is Only A Road to Losing Again to Win Never Complete Within....
It's like this; Ya (me) can/will go to School, for 19 Years, Work for Pay for 33 Years, Get
3 Degrees and Retire Financially Independent at Higher Levels of Federal Retirement Pay Before 50...
And Honestly
Be as Poor
As Ever more within
Now Then With Nothing
Real of Value Complete Then Now...
i didn't go to School, or Work, or
Pay for this Heaven; i earned Every Smile
With Another Smile Now For Free Doing More at ease than ever before....
Competing Against no one...
Just doing more
to Love
This Life for Real...
Just a Philosopher; like
This 'Wrong Planet Site' says not something
You Earn A Living With; Just A Way to truly
Breathe Free With Our Own Dance and Song
No Else Owns; Or Perhaps Have no Clue Why it's worth to do...
Heaven
Is sort
oF A Reward
Worth Keeping;
Yet only For Those who
Give And Share more now
With No Expect of Return Giving Sharing Freely Even more ...
Yet, Truly Breathing Complete Free Now Enough....
to Give
And Share
with
Least
Harm even Freely some
More Never Ending Story
Just Never Landing, Always Flying Higher;
Tight Rope Dance Song Even Higher; Endless
Metaphors Beyond Infinity; Human Imagination
Creativity and Loving Giving Sharing Freely Beyond Measure more...
What's A Difference
Between A 'Distance'
oF iNFiNiTY NoW...
We aRe
Creators oF NoW...
Hehe, Other than that
if Ya BREaTHE Deep
Enough, it's difficult
For others to Reach the Surface of 'the Ocean' to even see...
Quickest Way Never Ever to Get into a Silly Argument Wasting Precious Heaven Now...
Part and Parcel
Of A Journey
All Paths
Just
Eternal
Now Complete Enough for Real...
People Like to Feel Bigger Than they
Currently Are; Competition Gives
Them That Shot of Neurochemical/
Neurohormone When They FEEL
SENSE they win in any Human
Competition, Yes For Real
To Increase Perceived
Status in Terms More
Materially Reductionist
of Dopamine, Serotonin;
Yes, The Empathy of Oxytocin
one Feels As A Team Ya Bond
With In Perceived Ideals and Facts
Is Winning A Game And Or A Debate at Hand...
Other Neurohormones include Epinephrine, Endorphins,
And Androgens And Estrogens; And Various Other Unnamed;
Or Perhaps Not Even Named Yet Neurohormones and Neurochemicals
As a Synergy of Feeling and Sensing Life We Individually Create Within...
So What's the Short
Cut to Not Having
To Feel/Sense We
Must Compete to Breathe...
AHa, Generate Our Own Neurochemicals,
Neurohormones Within; Become The Painter, Brush,
Paint, And Masterpeace Painting Within With Our Own
Hand
of Humanity's
Greatest Art A
Soul Complete With
All That's Left to Do is
Give and Share Freely
With Least Harm
Who Knows
Ya (me) Might Public Dance
Half Way Around the World
in Distance And More; Soon Write
A 9 MiLLioN Word Longest Long Form EPiC Poem
That is only A Compilation of Giving And Sharing
Free to Folks Around the World For Others to Benefit From Again...
Indeed, this Autotelic Flow of Heaven Within Generated As Art unto
Heaven Within to Give And Share Free to Others even More with Bountiful
Divine
And
Holy
Sacred
Frission That's
Real Putting the
Theism in Realism For
ReaL This Heaven Now Within to
Give and Share For Free totally
Backed Up By Science As REAL...
Meanwhile, 'Mozart'
And 'Van Gogh',
'Beethoven',
'Einstein',
And
'Da
Vinci',
Are
Still Playing
'Candy Crush'
With 'Forrest Gump;
At A Bus Stop to Win; Just totally
Lost from Most of Human Potential...
Key is Being Enough Within to do more now...
Not Having to compete; Just Becoming More of a Butterfly Flight Free...
i don't come here to debate.. i come here to listen to my Soul Dance and Sing
i 'Thought this
Was A Place
For Philosophers...
Not for What has been done before....
Thing is, i don't don't have to think to do this.. Just do it now in Effortless Ease of Flow..
Let the Dance And Song Do the Dancing And Singing; Give All the Worry A Vacation
Never Needing to come back...
Is it Possible:
Yes.
Is It Probable
From What i've Seen: sadly no...
Somethings Sadly Just don't change; Age to Age, in Life For Real Now
Where Winning is Only A Road to Losing Again to Win Never Complete Within....
It's like this; Ya (me) can/will go to School, for 19 Years, Work for Pay for 33 Years, Get
3 Degrees and Retire Financially Independent at Higher Levels of Federal Retirement Pay Before 50...
And Honestly
Be as Poor
As Ever more within
Now Then With Nothing
Real of Value Complete Then Now...
i didn't go to School, or Work, or
Pay for this Heaven; i earned Every Smile
With Another Smile Now For Free Doing More at ease than ever before....
Competing Against no one...
Just doing more
to Love
This Life for Real...
Just a Philosopher; like
This 'Wrong Planet Site' says not something
You Earn A Living With; Just A Way to truly
Breathe Free With Our Own Dance and Song
No Else Owns; Or Perhaps Have no Clue Why it's worth to do...
Heaven
Is sort
oF A Reward
Worth Keeping;
Yet only For Those who
Give And Share more now
With No Expect of Return Giving Sharing Freely Even more ...
Yet, Truly Breathing Complete Free Now Enough....
to Give
And Share
with
Least
Harm even Freely some
More Never Ending Story
Just Never Landing, Always Flying Higher;
Tight Rope Dance Song Even Higher; Endless
Metaphors Beyond Infinity; Human Imagination
Creativity and Loving Giving Sharing Freely Beyond Measure more...
What's A Difference
Between A 'Distance'
oF iNFiNiTY NoW...
We aRe
Creators oF NoW...
Hehe, Other than that
if Ya BREaTHE Deep
Enough, it's difficult
For others to Reach the Surface of 'the Ocean' to even see...
Quickest Way Never Ever to Get into a Silly Argument Wasting Precious Heaven Now...
Part and Parcel
Of A Journey
All Paths
Just
Eternal
Now Complete Enough for Real...
Off topic but I love your poetry
It makes me pause when I have to read
it. The way it was written. This is the way
poems are. I love that. The internet
is so full of nonsense, speed, speed, speed
and no pauses!
But you, your style
allows for something more than that
And when I slow down, it lets me think
of what you’re saying: especially how you
fill it with so much info. Information packed
with ideas. Philosophy indeed. Not just
the rat race of politics. I admire that.
07 Feb 2021, 8:22 pm
If you can convince someone of anything political/ideological, I think it's very very rarely through any type of direct back-and-forth. You can sometimes gradually convince people of certain things, but only when they're not looking. 
Say "you're wrong" to pretty much any human being who hasn't resigned themselves to eating crap as a way of life, and chances are they'll immediately react (mentally, at least) with a matching "no, you're wrong". But if you simply state something as an innocuous and uncontroversial fact in an unrelated conversation, then you might actually convince someone. If they let you do it enough times, then it barely even matters anymore if they actually agree or not. By that point, your notion/idea/opinion has their support until stated otherwise.
...And I guess that's one major reason why sometimes we find ourselves involved in ultimately pointless arguments. Because you can't just let people do that kind of thing too many times. You have to speak out somehow at some point. If your mind or theirs has actually been changed in the process, then great. Agreement has been reached without confrontation. But when the situation boils down to just manufactured consensus instead, then that's... not great.
That said, once you've made it clear that "hey, I see what you just did there with what you said, and I don't approve of it", I think there's really no point in arguing politics or ideology. There's certainly a point in discussing it, but no point in arguing.
07 Feb 2021, 10:18 pm
KT67 wrote:
Off topic but I love your poetry
It makes me pause when I have to read
it. The way it was written. This is the way
poems are. I love that. The internet
is so full of nonsense, speed, speed, speed
and no pauses!
But you, your style
allows for something more than that
And when I slow down, it lets me think
of what you’re saying: especially how you
fill it with so much info. Information packed
with ideas. Philosophy indeed. Not just
the rat race of politics. I admire that.
SMiLes, Thanks So Much; i came here to escape
Horrible Pain/Numb And Actually Spent Most of Days
Here Involved in an Endless Debate As to Whether or
Not The 'Autism Speaks Organization' was Evil or not as Truly A
Conspiracy Oriented Theory That Was A Huge Controversy in Autism
Communities For the Years i Spent Here Dealing With Pain/Numb From
November of 2010 through July 2013; and Honestly People in other Communities
Used to make Fun of
me as i Was so Technical
And Full of Facts and Links
And Evidence; Suggesting i was
A Computer; And Hehe, Even Literally
They Thought Autism Speaks Was Paying
Me as an Employee Defending it; i Always
Wanted To Have that Magic of Creativity
i saw in Others in College even Checking
Out a Book on Creativity at least 20 Times and
Never Found the Focus to Read it; ADHD A Big Issue
For me, Getting in Touch With my Emotions is Part of
What Helped Heal me most in a Life Threatening Synergy of
19 Mostly Work-Stress Disorders, related to Autism Burnout;
Shut-in For 66 Months; Even in Much Worse Condition, then, Basically
Trapped in My Head with Type Two Trigeminal Neuralgia From Wake
to Sleep the first 33 Months, Before i came Here; Yes, There is Much
Healing Power in Human Emotions in Terms of Actual Biology; That
And the Free Public Meditative Flowing Moving Dance has truly Given me a Much Longer
'Shelf Life' Than i ever Expected Was Possible for me; What Began as Escaping Pain/Numb Writing
Eventually Became a Joy, so i keep Doing it for a True Joy of Life Worth More than any 'Stuff'/Money' to me
The Joy
The Flow
of Now
Just Enough
Creating As is...
And Nah i really have
No Idea How to Write Poetry,
What Ever Flows Out Does; It's
like the Dance, i Have No Idea how to Dance
Either; Soul of my Body Takes Charge As Well As Song of My Soul Intuitively too...
For Real Organically As Such; All Real And Truly to me A Real Theism of Realism too
All Natural
And Truly
Considering the Before
And After me; No Wonder
Some Folks Who Experience Flow
Feel like they are Some How Touched
By Supernatural Forces; Yet Surely Part
of my own Natural Potential, i had little Clue existed Before....
And Honestly, considering i wasn't even Comfortable Walking Solo
In Walmart Before All of this as Basically Some Folks Have Service Animals, And i had may Wife
To accompany me always by my Side; If There Was ever a Miracle for me; Dancing in Public is the
Last thing
Anyone
Would
Have Expected
me to do; Honestly,
The Equivalent of
'Sheldon Cooper'
Eventually Transforming
into 'Saturday Night Fever' At the Dance
Hall, Hehe; yet only my Style of Course; no Rules...
Before in My Life, i Couldn't Do anything without Instructions;
All i will Dance Sing is, for those Who Lose Hope as i had no idea what that feeling
of Hope was then, before when Shut-in in my Home; Don't Give up, Change IS A GReaTesT Gift oF all..
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,768
Location: the island of defective toy santas
07 Feb 2021, 10:22 pm
