Wage Slavery vs. UBI

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A reason to get out of the house should be incentive enough, ungrateful peasant!

It's the wisdoms I have heard through my life.

We can go through each one.

However, overall, "Wage Slavery* keeps you from having idle hands.

Conservatives call it "the welfare trap".

Taking money not earned "traps" you into a life of submission and complacency when you cannot find much higher paying work.

Because, why work, when you can get nearly the same for free?

So, likely, conservatives will argue that there's a "UBI trap".

That "traps" people into complacency, and submission to UBI qualifications, and undermines their potential.

Quotes from someone else's minds and thoughts. But what do YOU think?
Have you tried doing the thinking and wisdom yourself?

I hate when people quote others, mainly famous historical people and sort of take that as evidence enough it must be "true" for some reason, because someone famous said it. It's anti-autistic and very neurotypical behavior. It's bad.

I tell you something: Benjamin Franklin was wrong.

Idle hands means you have time to think for yourself, great minds and great insight that makes progress often comes from people with idle hands.

In philosophy, there is no right or wrong, because truth is unknowable.

You asked what is wrong with UBI.

I pointed out the objection of "idle hands" that can lead people to do drugs/drinking/take on bad habits/hang out with the wrong people at the wrong times -- when structure is removed in their lives.

We know some people need structure and discipline or they make bad decisions.

Likely, implementations of UBI will have strict qualifications that guard against "idle hands".

How times have changed...

Benjamin Franklin - "On the Price of Corn and Management of the Poor", November 1766

I basically live a life where I don't have to work. I do some volunteer-work, because I want to, and want to make a difference. But I don't have to. And I have a lot of spare time/idle hands - and I don't take drugs, drink or hang out with the wrong people at the wrong times.

I have made my own structure in life. Why should I get punished for other people's bad habits? Why should society deny ME my way of life because OTHER PEOPLE take on bad habits and hang out with the wrong people at the wrong times, take drugs and get drunk?

And so the Poor/Work Houses came to exist. Where the poor became even poorer but had to work for no wages at all, only getting paid in bread and water.

That's what this philosophy of "work in return for welfare benefits" actually means in the real world.

Murphy's law: "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong".

So, in life, we have to try and foolproof everything.

So, UBI will have to be foolproofed.

Murphy was an optimist...

In order for it to work, menial jobs will have to pay a LOT more. Imagine going to buy groceries, but the shelves are empty. No one wanted to stock shelves for minimum wage, so they all started collecting UBI. But now there's no food there for you to buy with your UBI money.

And if you say, "Well, people can chose to supplement their UBI by working menial jobs for extra cash," realize that even if people apply for those jobs, they'll put in zero effort, not care if they get fired, and do a lazy job.

Then maybe - if we can't do without them - these "menial" jobs turn out to be worth much more than typically paid today?

BTW, there is currently very dynamic development of robots for doing more and more of the "menial jobs".

I've worked retail, it can be tough work, there's a lot of lifting involved (in hardlines), schedules change constantly, chronic understaffing is an issue, distracting customers etc. There are certainly "lazy" people in retail jobs, but they're "lazy" because the pay sucks and they get no respect from anyone. Give the workers a voice in the workplace, pay them a living wage and they might actually be enthusiastic about stocking shelves.

To me, it's odd how people who do such hard work, get so little pay.

Near me, at a sub shop (Subway) , workers earn $9/hr , and have to mostly stand all day with COVID masks on.

Standing all day is tough.

Now wearing a COVID mask in a retail job <----- I couldn't do it.

In Walden 2 by BF Skinner, rate of pay was determined by the relative pleasure, or lack thereof, found in the work. So, as a generalization, trash collectors would have a very high rate of pay. Others, let’s say flower arrangers, would be paid less. (At least, I think it was Skinner; could be wrong.)

One of the more interesting studies with some bearing on the UBI discussion as reported by Shankram Vedantam on NPR involved aid in a developing country in sub-Saharan Africa, showed that of three “aid” programs, the only one that showed the family getting ahead and pulling themselves out of poverty was the one in which the family was given $100 more than subsistence level.

The three groups were (as best I recall):
Family is given one cow.
Family is given the monetary equivalent of one cow.
Family was given $100 more than the value of #1 or #2

The amount paid isn't based on the work, but on the availability of those to do it...

In "low skill" jobs such as retail, there is a large pool of potential workers, so businesses can afford to pay less, knowing there are plenty of people able (and theoretically willing) to do the work for the low pay. This can be exacerbated by laws which permit an increase in the potential "pool" of workers (lowering minimum age of employment, increasing population - commonly through immigration, allowing foreigners in the country such as students and tourists to work, etc.).

Other jobs which pay higher (but appear less "demanding") do so as a result of a limitation (natural or artificial) on the size of the available "pool" of employees, whether through the number of people pursuing that area, limitations on the number of "licences" for the role, etc.