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Is it true that republicans cannot be bought in this sense?

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ironpony
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29 Apr 2021, 9:46 pm

In my area there are a lot of immigrants, but they all work for businesses that were already established from the businesses I know. I haven't seen a business started by an immigrant yet in my area at least.



funeralxempire
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29 Apr 2021, 9:51 pm

ironpony wrote:
In my area there are a lot of immigrants, but they all work for businesses that were already established from the businesses I know. I haven't seen a business started by an immigrant yet in my area at least.


Fair enough, around here most of the restaurants, pretty much every convenience store, a realtor, lots of law firms, lots of medical offices, a number of salons and nail places and lots of stores that cater towards immigrant communities all come to mind. And those are just off of the top of my head.


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Redd_Kross
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29 Apr 2021, 9:53 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
No wait, while you didn't say the number 1492 you clearly were referring to the period before Columbus made contact, when there were millions of people.

I meant what I said, stop putting words in my mouth.

The time when what's now known as America contained Native Americans, Eskimos, and Pacific Islanders.

Columbus and 1492 are false refence points as supposedly there were white settlers before that. And that's the only distinction I am making, between people who had lived there for Centuries (as a result of tectonic shift or whatever), and those who arrived looking for new lands to explore / colonise as visitors from other countries, by choice, much later on.



ironpony
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29 Apr 2021, 10:00 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
In my area there are a lot of immigrants, but they all work for businesses that were already established from the businesses I know. I haven't seen a business started by an immigrant yet in my area at least.


Fair enough, around here most of the restaurants, pretty much every convenience store, a realtor, lots of law firms, lots of medical offices, a number of salons and nail places and lots of stores that cater towards immigrant communities all come to mind. And those are just off of the top of my head.


Actually that's true about restaurants, where I live, I wasn't thinking of those. But haven't had that experience with medical offices or law firms. Don't go to salons much, but I can try to look out for it and pay attention to it :).



funeralxempire
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29 Apr 2021, 10:14 pm

Redd_Kross wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
No wait, while you didn't say the number 1492 you clearly were referring to the period before Columbus made contact, when there were millions of people.

I meant what I said, stop putting words in my mouth.

The time when what's now known as America contained Native Americans, Eskimos, and Pacific Islanders.

Columbus and 1492 are false refence points as supposedly there were white settlers before that. And that's the only distinction I am making, between people who had lived there for Centuries (as a result of tectonic shift or whatever), and those who arrived looking for new lands to explore / colonise as visitors from other countries, by choice, much later on.


Viking colonization was never significant to be relevant to overall population trends, at least based on existing evidence.

The only period where the Americas were significantly empty after the arrival of indigenous peoples was when portions of the population were dying from introduced diseases. That period doesn't provide an accurate assessment of how things were prior to contact.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


funeralxempire
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29 Apr 2021, 10:32 pm

ironpony wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
In my area there are a lot of immigrants, but they all work for businesses that were already established from the businesses I know. I haven't seen a business started by an immigrant yet in my area at least.


Fair enough, around here most of the restaurants, pretty much every convenience store, a realtor, lots of law firms, lots of medical offices, a number of salons and nail places and lots of stores that cater towards immigrant communities all come to mind. And those are just off of the top of my head.


Actually that's true about restaurants, where I live, I wasn't thinking of those. But haven't had that experience with medical offices or law firms. Don't go to salons much, but I can try to look out for it and pay attention to it :).


Using the restaurant example: when they're smaller the business only creates jobs for the family (and sometimes ends up paying less than minimum wage to the family members pitching in) but if it grows they end up hiring locals, even if there's a lot of family members to hire on before some locals are needed.

The one burrito place I like, a franchise opened up near me and I've watched it basically from day one until now. At first everyone I saw working was a family member but gradually some of them moved on to other jobs as the place became more established. It now employs a handful of people. Part of how they do things is that once the one gets a business off the ground they help seed money for the next family member to pursue their idea.

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Just like white privilege, having a family that's tight and coherent enough to help other family members out is a form of privilege that can really help those who have access to it. I don't blame the owner and his family for doing things that way but I can understand the jealousy that the same people I said lack ambition might have because they get told they benefit from privilege but they know they don't benefit from that privilege that they see making someone else's life better. Especially if they actually do have ambition but just are trapped by circumstance. I don't sympathize with how they feel, but I can empathize with feeling that way if you've only really considered how factors in life have worked against ones self and not how if they had other factors they might have even more hurdles to get over. It took me a long time to get used to trying to consider how other people's experiences would influence their perspectives, so I can't entirely blame other people who struggle with doing that.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


ironpony
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29 Apr 2021, 10:44 pm

Oh okay, that makes sense. But is the American government's interest in bringing in so many immigrants really just to be nice? It seems like they wouldn't do it unless there is something in it for them. I don't think most immigrant businesses or them having jobs would effect the government will it? So are they really doing it just out of the goodness of the heart, nothing more?



funeralxempire
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29 Apr 2021, 10:58 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, that makes sense. But is the American government's interest in bringing in so many immigrants really just to be nice? It seems like they wouldn't do it unless there is something in it for them. I don't think most immigrant businesses or them having jobs would effect the government will it? So are they really doing it just out of the goodness of the heart, nothing more?


Well, as they become employed they'll pay taxes right? And those taxes will pay for things the government wants to do.

I don't believe any government acts purely out of a desire to be kind, even when they do the right thing it's because they see the benefits of doing so, not because it's kind or generous to do so. Appearing kind and generous might even be a benefit, but it's never the only one.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


ironpony
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29 Apr 2021, 11:24 pm

Oh but the government has all these programs for paying money to people in times of need though, so in that case, wouldn't they being more money to more people in need, and thus it would all even out anyway, without them really getting any extra tax money from immigrants, if they have to pay more out and it all evens out therefore?



funeralxempire
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29 Apr 2021, 11:34 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh but the government has all these programs for paying money to people in times of need though, so in that case, wouldn't they being more money to more people in need, and thus it would all even out anyway, without them really getting any extra tax money from immigrants, if they have to pay more out and it all evens out therefore?


Historically investing in letting immigrants in and find their feet has been a worthwhile investment for governments. It has upfront costs, but in the long run it's beneficial.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


TwisterUprocker
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30 Apr 2021, 1:23 am

The "immigrants are taking our jobs" and "immigrants are lazy" are still compatible if someone believes that they are getting jobs then slacking off on them.



cyberdad
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30 Apr 2021, 2:02 am

funeralxempire wrote:
The Americas weren't quite as empty prior to 1492 as is sometimes claimed. Upper estimates might be too high, but the idea that the Americas were empty is partially the result of the wave of death that preceded contact for most of that process.


Explorer Captain Cook lied to the British crown that Australia was "terra nullius" ignoring the 40,000 year old civilisation that was already living there. The declaration precipitated the European settlement and the de-population of millions of indigenous people (pre-colonial estimates are likely an underestimate as disease was (as always) the biggest killer.