Page 2 of 3 [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

roronoa79
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Jan 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,432
Location: Indiana

14 Dec 2021, 10:14 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Simple: "Cancel Culture" is a 21st-century term for what used to be called "Ostracism".

Cancel culture is a modern form of ostracism in which someone is thrust out of social or professional communities; whether those communities are online (e.g., social media), corporate (e.g., "You're fired!"), or in person (e.g., "I don't know you").

"Ghosting" is a way of cancelling a personal relationship.

"Boycotting" is a corporate (or economic) way of canceling a business relationship.

"Banning" is a way of cancelling someone from a social website.


Another word for it is: Bullying.

I am not bullying someone if I ghost them for saying that queers like me are destroying America and that discrimination against them should be legally protected.

I am definitely not bullying a corporation (poor, defenseless corporations!) by boycotting it for treating its employees like s***.

A website is not bullying someone by banning them for violating terms which dictate whether or not you can use their private platform.

The public is not bullying someone by shunning them for saying and doing things that the public finds morally reprehensible.

Bullying implies pointless, repeated cruelty for no good reason against someone helpless. Creating social consequences for people who say and do things people consider awful is not bullying.


_________________
Diagnoses: AS, Depression, General & Social Anxiety
I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
- Brian Wilson

Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.

- Thucydides

Conservatism discourages thought, discussion, consensus, empathy, and hope.


roronoa79
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Jan 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,432
Location: Indiana

14 Dec 2021, 10:19 pm

Bullying is what happens when no one creates these kinds of social consequences for people who bully others.

If we had "cancelled" the homophobes and transphobes sooner, there would be a lot fewer queer and trans kids getting bullied.


_________________
Diagnoses: AS, Depression, General & Social Anxiety
I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
- Brian Wilson

Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.

- Thucydides

Conservatism discourages thought, discussion, consensus, empathy, and hope.


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York

15 Dec 2021, 12:46 am

Incidents of Cancel Culture may or may not be bullying. Boycotting is not bullying. Actions like Doxing, showing up at somebody's house and making noise, and shining lights through the person's window or burning a cross on their lawn is bullying. It does not matter if the person being bullied is a bully or deserves it. And people who are not bullies are being targeted solely for their political opinion. To claim otherwise is likely disingenuous.


_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”

Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

15 Dec 2021, 1:19 am

This topic coming up again?

Please prove there is a "culture" of cancelling because the people who created this term are the ones who engaged in this very thing for 100s of years under the guise of social norms, christian edicts and moral standards.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

15 Dec 2021, 1:19 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
And people who are not bullies are being targeted solely for their political opinion. To claim otherwise is likely disingenuous.


Its not a culture...



ToughDiamond
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Age: 73
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,534

15 Dec 2021, 11:02 am

I think it depends on the "crime" a person has committed that precipitates a boycott. A lot of it depends on political opinion. People at opposite ends of the usual political divide (left versus right) tend to view each other as dangerous and hostile to humanity, and when you're trying to neutralise a hostile, you probably won't want to tie your hands behind your back in order to win prizes for not being a bully. I think whether or not an instance of this so-called "cancel culture" is "for losers" depends on whether or not it works - if a boycott can put a dangerous or sociopathic individual out of business, it's for winners.

Terms such as "cancel culture" seem to get coined in order to bias people's grasp of what's going on, and I regret that people use such tricks. I'd rather have neutral labels for things so that we can more easily decide for ourselves whether we approve of a thing or not. I see somebody's tried to redress the balance by proposing the term "consequence culture" to underscore the benefits of public outcries in holding people to account. It's probably an equally dirty trick, but once one side has broken faith with honesty, maybe you have to add an equal-and-opposite wrong to make a right, though I'd much prefer it if people just spoke candidly in the first place.



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York

15 Dec 2021, 11:57 am

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
And people who are not bullies are being targeted solely for their political opinion. To claim otherwise is likely disingenuous.


Its not a culture...

What is accepted before a person is non grata is considerably less then lets say 20 years ago. Using a word considered improper was usually considered awkward not grounds for firing. And the amount of words considered verboten has gone up considerably.

While historically what is considered verboten is a lot less today(McCarthyism and the Victorian era come to mind) it is more today than it was for a large portion of the population. “Cancellation” as a term applied to people rather then events started in the social media world, deleting a person from your friends list type of thing and it is social media that is a large factor in promulgating cancel culture. If you said an offensive thing while soused one night a few people might have heard it. Now you or somebody else will post it for the whole world to see. So arguably cancel culture is a subgroup or outgrowth of social media culture.

I do disagree with the OP about cancel culture being for losers. A culture is not created by losers. The rapid expansion of what is considered grounds for cancellation is evidence proponents of cancel culture have been big time winners. Whether the recent increase in the intensity of the backlash against it will change the equation is to be seen. Reactive phenomenons are generally at a disadvantage.


_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”

Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.


VegetableMan
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,208
Location: Illinois

15 Dec 2021, 12:21 pm

cyberdad wrote:
This topic coming up again?

Please prove there is a "culture" of cancelling because the people who created this term are the ones who engaged in this very thing for 100s of years under the guise of social norms, christian edicts and moral standards.


You are correct about the right engaging in camcel culture, but that doesn't negate the fact that it has negative effects regardless of who initiates it.

You fail to acknowledge that there is no shortage of people on the left who are tired of this s**t and see it as becoming beyond absurd. Comments like yours only fueling the partisan divide, which inhibits meaningful dialog and is a major existential threat to our country.

You are part of the problem, not the solution.


_________________
What do you call a hot dog in a gangster suit?

Oscar Meyer Lansky


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York

08 Feb 2022, 9:52 am

The Educators Who Decided That Context Doesn’t Matter

Quote:
Humans of all political persuasions have a tendency to lose sight of why taboos exist and to enforce them rigidly rather than thoughtfully. In two recent cases, American educators chose quality instructional material for their students, only to be stymied by illiberal authority figures who apparently believe that, whenever objectionable words are mentioned, context doesn’t matter.

The first example comes from red America: School-board officials in McMinn County, Tennessee, voted to remove Maus Art Spiegelman’s Pulitzer Prize–winning graphic novel about Holocaust survivors, from its eighth-grade curriculum, largely because of eight curse words, including goddamn, in its text. School-board members felt that it was wrong to assign reading with words their students aren’t allowed to say. “I understand that on TV and maybe at home these kids hear worse,” school-board member Tony Allman said, according to a transcript of a meeting last month, “but we are talking about things that if a student went down the hallway and said this, our disciplinary policy says they can be disciplined, and rightfully so.”

The second example comes from blue America: Administrators at the University of Illinois at Chicago suspended, investigated, and punished Jason Kilborn, a law professor, over an exam question meant to test students’ knowledge of civil procedure in a race- and gender-discrimination lawsuit. The relevant material is quoted verbatim in a complaint the professor filed against the university:



One question asked students to analyze a piece of evidence, an account from a former manager that the manager had “quit her job at Employer after she attended a meeting in which other managers expressed their anger at Plaintiff, calling her a ‘n ’ and ‘b ’ (profane expressions for African Americans and women) and vowed to get rid of her.”



The complaint goes on to clarify, “The question appeared exactly like this, with respectfully expurgated references to the racial and gender slurs.” All of Kilborn’s classes were canceled. He was barred from campus and from interacting with anyone in the university community.

In the culture wars, there’s a lot of debate about whether the “red” tribe or the “blue” tribe poses the greater threat to liberal norms in education. But is that the question we should be asking? The Tennessee school-board officials and the Chicago law-school administrators made the same mistake: Both acted to bolster preexisting community taboos against nasty words, but in doing so, they failed to distinguish between using nasty words in order to wound, profane, or disparage, and mentioning nasty words in order to teach about the problems they represent.

That difference—known as the “use-mention distinction” to educators still brave enough to teach it—is a key bulwark against anti-intellectual attacks on art, literature, philosophy, and more.

These recent acts of illiberal language policing––coinciding with a racial reckoning on the left and a backlash against its excesses on the right––threatens to degrade the education of all young people. Disregard for context or intent will serve students poorly in a world where survivors of genocide do curse while conveying their experiences and where lawyers do grapple with fact patterns that include racial slurs. And ignoring the use-mention distinction—or acculturating students to reject it—vests the mere mention of nasty language with more power to disconcert or wound, not less. In the University of Illinois controversy, Kilborn reported that he used that same exam question for 10 years without incident.

What’s more, the mere absence of nasty words would not even protect anyone from reprehensible ideas. Hateful sentiments worthy of our scorn can be conveyed via non-taboo diction.

The law professor’s punishment violates core values of higher education. As his lawsuit puts it, “The University of Illinois System’s Guiding Principles at the very beginning explicitly ensure an ‘unyielding allegiance to freedom of speech even controversial, contentious, and unpopular speech’ and pledge that ‘protected speech cannot be prohibited or punished.’” Yet they transgressed against both academic freedom and the First Amendment.

Decide for yourself about which of these illiberal actions is more worrisome. So long as significant factions on the right and left fail to embrace core liberal insights and values about language in education, students will be ill-served by whichever strain of illiberalism happens to wield power.


_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”

Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.


aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,339

08 Feb 2022, 10:53 am



Yawn, "Cancel Culture"
Is Yes, Just A Hyperbolic

P E J o R A T iV E Appropriated

Phrase Now for Frigging Gossip

THAT IS Yes, A NATURAL PART OF

HUMAN NATURE; NOW TO BE CLEAR,

GOSSIP WILL GET OUT OF HAND YET TO

Be Clear, Shame is How Social Animals Called

Humans Keep Other Social Animals Called Humans

Bonding And Binding Over Appropriate Ideologies And

Symbols

So the
Frigging Group
Think Doesn't Fall

Apart With the Group

No Longer Supporting the

Members of the Group As Hairless
Apes Are Naturally Stronger Together Like

A Frigging Pack of Wolves; So, Back to the Omega
Wolf Lesson, When The Alpha Wolf Fails the Test of
Taking Care of the Omega Wolf, Same as Rest of the Pack,

The Pack Starts to Fall Apart, The Alpha Wolf Loses His And
or Her Position

And Trump
Gets Replaced
By Biden And the
Pendulum Swings the

Other Way of Empathy, Yes
Giving, Sharing, Caring, Healing All Around Love

For the Marginalized Wolves That Are Human too...

This Is Just Common Sense; Look Around, The Essence
Of the Reality of the Social Animal Experience is the Similar;

Only The Terms And Intensity of the Gossip, The Shame, And

The Outcast

Consequences

Tend to Change Depending
On How Far the Pendulum Swings
in One Way or the Other; Yes, 'Left or Right'

(More Conservative or Liberal AS Such)

Per

Say
And Do

in Metaphor
Ways True too...

And Yawn, in this Case, Ironically Not Surprising,
Pejoratives Used for Gossip Are Gossip too, hehe,

Used the Same Way to Shame in Hopes for Desired Change...

Yawn, "The
Omega
Wolf
Set Free"

Doesn't Have
to Worry About This
At All as the Omega
Wolf Who Does Set Him and
Or Her Self Free Enjoys A Level of
Freedom Equal or Greater Than Meek Inheriting

The Earth
NoW Free in

A 'Garden of
Eden' for Real

And If you Don't Believe
IT, i have Plenty of Photo
Evidence That Proves What

i am Suggesting Literally
Did and Still Happens Now

At Least
in the Place

of Real Heaven i Live
Within And Give, And
Share, And Care, And Heal For

Free FOR REAL As Actually In This
Case Study, 'The Omega Wolf' is 'The Real Alpha'

Hehe, And Folks Like Trump And
Cohorts are too Blinded And Low
to Even See How Low They Are...

Roots oF A Tree Suggesting

'They' Are

Trees

Yet

Just

Brown
Leaves Slowly
Rotting STill
falling

falling

to The

Ground Nourishing
Folks Like me Totally
Still Green And Naturally Free...
When Spring Comes Free Year Around...

In Other Words, "The Real Emperor" is Naked,
Enough, Whole, And Complete And Totally Understands 'It'...

And Sure, There May Be As Many Emperors, Kings And Or Queens

As Neos
Unplug

From the
'Pack Think'

And Set Themselves Free...

And to Be Clear, "the Matrix," in this
Case Study, Technology, IS A Required Tool to Make this HaPPen too...

Ironically, Inherently, An Only Way "The Omega Wolf" Gets Set Free...

As Long as
'The Tool'
is Mastered
And 'The one'

Is Not Mastered by 'The Tool'..:)



_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,339

10 Feb 2022, 1:01 pm



In A Return to "Cancel Culture"
Also Know Now As The Human
Nature of Gossip To Shame

Other Humans;

Yes, In Fear of
Being Rejected
Out of the Resources
That Group Think and
Social Cohesion Brings,

Another Great Example
As The Republican House Leadership
Attempting to Censure and Shame
The Two Republican Leaders of the
January 6th 2020, Commission, to get

to the Bottom of Who All is Responsible
For The Deadly Insurrection, Was Generally Assessed
Recently As Legitimate Political Discourse Leaving it to
the Imaginations of Folks in Open Source Way For Shame...

Yet McConnell, The Republican Senate Minority Leader, Brings
Back His Own Cancel Culture Gossip to Shame McCarthy and His
Republican House Minority Leadership to Make Him Fess Up And

Correct His Mistake
And Clearly Identify

The January 6th, Event
to Overcome the
Representative
Fair Democratic
Election Process As
What it Was and Still
Is Now FOR REAL, A VIOLENT
INSURRECTION IN AN ATTEMPT TO
OVERTHROW A PART OF DEMOCRACY...

So in Doing So, Trump And All His Lies
About an Election Being Stolen Get Shade
of Cancel Culture Gossip Spreading Same

At Risk of Course to McCarthy And His Grasp
For Power As Potential Republican House Majority
Leader come Mid-Term Election Changes to Come

As True, the More "Virulent Aspects" of Republican
Gossiping, Shading, Shaming, May Cancel Culture

Hopes of McCarthy in Rising in

Power Bringing

Even Deeper

Potential
into the

Sub-Culture of
"Republican Trumpism"
To Rise Again in Marjorie Taylor Green/Gaetz Ways of
Falling, Falling, Away From A Representative Democracy Sadly too...



_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

10 Feb 2022, 3:43 pm

There's a recently deceased comedian named Ralphie May who made a valid point about the use of inflammatory words in his jokes. I've also heard this mentioned a few times.

Context is key.

If you are using a derogatory word and you qualify the statement for a specific context then that's fine,

If you are using the word to intentionally hurt a group or use the word/words without thinking of the consequences because you clearly disrespect the group then that's bad.

Comedians get a free pass for me but then that doesn't mean I am comfortable when they use the r-word tp say that person is stupid or I'm stupid even if it's part of a joke.

Patrice O'Neill famously said It's the attempt - if the joke doesn't fly then the comedian bombs but it';s their profession. It's not funny when a celebrity or politician uses the word when you know they use the word in private.



Fixxer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Mar 2021
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,511

10 Feb 2022, 6:38 pm

Everyone has the right to speak and denying someone, throwing them under the bus, is very immoral to do. We see it being done casually in the media, social media, but it's a matter of influence, good or bad, to get their way and gain popularity. Be careful about who you trust!



Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 26,492
Location: UK

10 Feb 2022, 6:54 pm

Posting in this dangerous part of WP because the other sections have gone dead...

thinkinginpictures wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
So when people develop disdain for an artist based on their behaviour or opinions are they not allowed to lose interest in that person's art as a result? :scratch:


You may dislike as much art as you like, provided it's the art itself you dislike.
Disliking art based on who made it, makes you a loser though.

I hate nazis. I wish Hitler is burning up in hell for all eternity.
But I have no reason to dislike his art.


You mean like a lot of people disliking songs sung by Rolf Harris or Gary Glitter just because of the perverted things they did? I hate paedophilia and all that but what they did still doesn't make me hate their music.

I thought cancel culture meant things like demolishing gender or stuff like that.


_________________
Female


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

11 Feb 2022, 1:48 am

Joe90 wrote:
Posting in this dangerous part of WP because the other sections have gone dead...

thinkinginpictures wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
So when people develop disdain for an artist based on their behaviour or opinions are they not allowed to lose interest in that person's art as a result? :scratch:


You may dislike as much art as you like, provided it's the art itself you dislike.
Disliking art based on who made it, makes you a loser though.

I hate nazis. I wish Hitler is burning up in hell for all eternity.
But I have no reason to dislike his art.


You mean like a lot of people disliking songs sung by Rolf Harris or Gary Glitter just because of the perverted things they did? I hate paedophilia and all that but what they did still doesn't make me hate their music.

I thought cancel culture meant things like demolishing gender or stuff like that.


Michael Jackson is still very popular.



Brictoria
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,998
Location: Melbourne, Australia

12 Feb 2022, 3:12 am