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TwilightPrincess
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04 Jul 2022, 7:01 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:

A bit like a 90 year old dating an 85 year old.


No, nothing like that since they are both adults. :roll:


Yes but they are different age?


There’s no problem with two consenting adults sleeping together. It is a problem when an adult has sex with (statutory rapes) a minor.


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CubsBullsBears
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04 Jul 2022, 7:02 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think that both of the people in the examples got the punishment they deserved.

We really don’t need to be lightening up on child sex offenders.
you do realize that in one of the examples, the “perpetrator” meant no bad intent, right? He met the girl at an 18 and over bar, so he had no way of knowing she was underage. And yet he’s getting severely punished for life, because of how harsh the sex offender registry is in some states (finding housing and getting a job is impossible for him). Also, because people on the registry are punished the same way, whether you’re a rapist, child molester, or had sex with someone who lied to you about her age.


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TwilightPrincess
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04 Jul 2022, 7:05 pm

CubsBullsBears wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think that both of the people in the examples got the punishment they deserved.

We really don’t need to be lightening up on child sex offenders.
you do realize that in one of the examples, the “perpetrator” meant no bad intent, right? He met the girl at an 18 and over bar, so he had no way of knowing she was underage. And yet he’s getting severely punished for life, because of how harsh the sex offender registry is in some states (finding housing and getting a job is impossible for him). Also, because people on the registry are punished the same way, whether you’re a rapist, child molester, or had sex with someone who lied to you about her age.


We are all responsible when it comes to making sure that the people we are sleeping with are of age.

Given some of his statements, I would take his article and the evidence therein with a grain of salt.

Interestingly, the guy “Adrian” didn’t make it into his documentary. I wonder why. :roll:


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 04 Jul 2022, 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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04 Jul 2022, 7:05 pm

CubsBullsBears wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think that both of the people in the examples got the punishment they deserved.

We really don’t need to be lightening up on child sex offenders.
you do realize that in one of the examples, the “perpetrator” meant no bad intent, right? He met the girl at an 18 and over bar, so he had no way of knowing she was underage. And yet he’s getting severely punished for life, because of how harsh the sex offender registry is in some states (finding housing and getting a job is impossible for him). Also, because people on the registry are punished the same way, whether you’re a rapist, child molester, or had sex with someone who lied to you about her age.


Apparently no additional considerations are supposed to be made, we're never supposed to consider any details except some numbers and then ruin the rest of the person's life.

Caught pissing in public? You're a diddler.
Engaged in the wrong hook-up as a teenager? You're a diddler.
Drew two characters from a kid's show f*****g? You better believe you're a diddler.

Apparently that approach is supposed to be considered morally righteous and not batshit insane.


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TwilightPrincess
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04 Jul 2022, 7:08 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
CubsBullsBears wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think that both of the people in the examples got the punishment they deserved.

We really don’t need to be lightening up on child sex offenders.
you do realize that in one of the examples, the “perpetrator” meant no bad intent, right? He met the girl at an 18 and over bar, so he had no way of knowing she was underage. And yet he’s getting severely punished for life, because of how harsh the sex offender registry is in some states (finding housing and getting a job is impossible for him). Also, because people on the registry are punished the same way, whether you’re a rapist, child molester, or had sex with someone who lied to you about her age.


Apparently no additional considerations are supposed to be made, we're never supposed to consider any details except some numbers and then ruin the rest of the person's life.

Caught pissing in public? You're a diddler.
Engaged in the wrong hook-up as a teenager? You're a diddler.
Drew two characters from a kid's show f*****g? You better believe you're a diddler.

Apparently that approach is supposed to be considered morally righteous and not batshit insane.


I find the word “diddler” triggering.

Anyway, yeah, people should avoid behaving like creeps.


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funeralxempire
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04 Jul 2022, 7:09 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
CubsBullsBears wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think that both of the people in the examples got the punishment they deserved.

We really don’t need to be lightening up on child sex offenders.
you do realize that in one of the examples, the “perpetrator” meant no bad intent, right? He met the girl at an 18 and over bar, so he had no way of knowing she was underage. And yet he’s getting severely punished for life, because of how harsh the sex offender registry is in some states (finding housing and getting a job is impossible for him). Also, because people on the registry are punished the same way, whether you’re a rapist, child molester, or had sex with someone who lied to you about her age.


Apparently no additional considerations are supposed to be made, we're never supposed to consider any details except some numbers and then ruin the rest of the person's life.

Caught pissing in public? You're a diddler.
Engaged in the wrong hook-up as a teenager? You're a diddler.
Drew two characters from a kid's show f*****g? You better believe you're a diddler.

Apparently that approach is supposed to be considered morally righteous and not batshit insane.


I find the word “diddler” triggering.

Anyway, yeah, people should avoid behaving like creeps.


Indeed, so long as the definition of creep is reasonable and doesn't come across like self-parody. Once it starts sounding ridiculous it (by nature) invites ridicule.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


TwilightPrincess
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04 Jul 2022, 7:11 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
CubsBullsBears wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think that both of the people in the examples got the punishment they deserved.

We really don’t need to be lightening up on child sex offenders.
you do realize that in one of the examples, the “perpetrator” meant no bad intent, right? He met the girl at an 18 and over bar, so he had no way of knowing she was underage. And yet he’s getting severely punished for life, because of how harsh the sex offender registry is in some states (finding housing and getting a job is impossible for him). Also, because people on the registry are punished the same way, whether you’re a rapist, child molester, or had sex with someone who lied to you about her age.


Apparently no additional considerations are supposed to be made, we're never supposed to consider any details except some numbers and then ruin the rest of the person's life.

Caught pissing in public? You're a diddler.
Engaged in the wrong hook-up as a teenager? You're a diddler.
Drew two characters from a kid's show f*****g? You better believe you're a diddler.

Apparently that approach is supposed to be considered morally righteous and not batshit insane.


I find the word “diddler” triggering.

Anyway, yeah, people should avoid behaving like creeps.


Indeed, so long as the definition of creep is reasonable and doesn't come across like self-parody.


In general, I’m satisfied with current laws regarding child sexual abuse.

I think that corporal punishment should be banned but that’s a different topic.


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Mountain Goat
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04 Jul 2022, 7:24 pm

Is new to me. Maybe it is a UK thing than only men can be classed as pedophiles. Maybe I have been watching too much BBC propoganda?

In my area there have been several cases of 16 and 17 year old boys who dated 14 to 15 year old girls and as a result have ended up on the sex offenders register for life and the head of police in my area thought it was wrong to ruin their futures as the girls conscented. (Does conscenting make a difference as an illegal act is an illegal act regardless of how it was done? Is similar to a person doing 5mph over the speed limit in their car and someone doing 95mph over the speed limit as breaking the law is breaking the law. We tend to sympathise more with the one who did 5mph more but as far as the law is concerned, both senarios are breaking the law).

What is the difference between a 16 year old pedophile as he has had sex with a 15 year old and a 19 year old doing the same with a 15 year old? And technically if a 15 year old had sex with another 15 year old both would be classed as pedophiles? Why isn't the younger one (Assuming conscent was given) not also classed as a pedophile because the younger one is at the very least an accessory to the crime?

The odd thing is that it is hardly surprizing since they introduce sex education in the UK at the age of three onwards.

Regarding toilets. There are no toilets in my area for a good 50 miles after 5pm (Some toilets close around 4pm) so many of us who have issues have to find hidden places to go as we simply have no choice.


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Last edited by Mountain Goat on 04 Jul 2022, 7:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

TwilightPrincess
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04 Jul 2022, 7:29 pm

^^

In the US, a person is legally an adult at 18. A 14 year old is not an adult. Some states allow relationships between adults and minors if they are close in age, but most states would not allow a relationship that had a 5 year age difference if one of the people involved was a minor. It makes sense. There’s a world of difference between 19 and 14.

Sex education is important. I doubt they teach very much at 3 in the UK apart from hygiene (which is also very important).


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funeralxempire
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04 Jul 2022, 7:32 pm

Pointing out where age of majority is currently set means very little because AoM and AoC are both legal concepts that can be changed.

Places often restrict access to intoxicants to those who are older than AoM. You'll pay more for car insurance and won't be allowed to rent a vehicle in many places.

It seems like we recognize that adults over the age of 18 are not fully mature, so an argument that consists of nothing but 'they're an adult' means little unless it also includes '...in the portion of adulthood where one's maturity is still questioned in many contexts'

I'm not arguing to treat the children less like children, I'm more leaning into the notion that adult teenagers aren't fully developed mentally and that ought to be considered when determining what's appropriate punishment.

Except for actual malicious acts I'm willing to give young adults more leeway than people who are well into their 20s. Discretion absolutely needs to be an option otherwise injustices will occur and sadly there will be people who cheerlead for those injustices.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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04 Jul 2022, 7:34 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Regarding toilets. There are no toilets in my area for a good 50 miles after 5pm (Some toilets close around 4pm) so many of us who have issues have to find hidden places to go as we simply have no choice.


I have on good authority that those people deserve to be classified as dangerous sexual predators.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


TwilightPrincess
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04 Jul 2022, 7:38 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Pointing out where age of majority is currently set means very little because AoM and AoC are both legal concepts that can be changed.

Places often restrict access to intoxicants to those who are older than AoM. You'll pay more for car insurance and won't be allowed to rent a vehicle in many places.

It seems like we recognize that adults over the age of 18 are not fully mature, so an argument that consists of nothing but 'they're an adult' means little unless it also includes '...in the portion of adulthood where one's maturity is still questioned in many contexts'

I'm not arguing to treat the children less like children, I'm more leaning into the notion that adult teenagers aren't fully developed mentally and that ought to be considered when determining what's appropriate punishment.

Except for actual malicious acts I'm willing to give young adults more leeway than people who are well into their 20s. Discretion absolutely needs to be an option otherwise injustices will occur and sadly there will be people who cheerlead for those injustices.


As the laws are not going to change anytime soon (if at all), people need to avoid having sex with minors (if for no other reason).

Age is an important determinant because laws need to operate under very specific parameters in order for them to work.


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funeralxempire
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04 Jul 2022, 7:44 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Pointing out where age of majority is currently set means very little because AoM and AoC are both legal concepts that can be changed.

Places often restrict access to intoxicants to those who are older than AoM. You'll pay more for car insurance and won't be allowed to rent a vehicle in many places.

It seems like we recognize that adults over the age of 18 are not fully mature, so an argument that consists of nothing but 'they're an adult' means little unless it also includes '...in the portion of adulthood where one's maturity is still questioned in many contexts'

I'm not arguing to treat the children less like children, I'm more leaning into the notion that adult teenagers aren't fully developed mentally and that ought to be considered when determining what's appropriate punishment.

Except for actual malicious acts I'm willing to give young adults more leeway than people who are well into their 20s. Discretion absolutely needs to be an option otherwise injustices will occur and sadly there will be people who cheerlead for those injustices.


As the laws are not going to change anytime soon (if at all), people need to avoid having sex with minors (if for no other reason).

Age is an important determinant because laws need to operate under very specific parameters in order for them to work.


Since we don't treat 18 year olds like adults in many contexts perhaps it's time to admit they're actually still kids and maybe oughta be off-limits to people much older than them.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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04 Jul 2022, 7:47 pm

Imagine:

What if a 19 year old man impregnates a 14 year old girl? Do you think no one will raise a stink about it? Do you think people will call this situation consensual? I doubt it.

So why act like a 19 year old girl having sex with a 14 year old boy is okay?

Speaking as a mom, what parent would think this is okay?

The law didn’t think it was okay, and I agree.


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04 Jul 2022, 7:48 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
CubsBullsBears wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think that both of the people in the examples got the punishment they deserved.

We really don’t need to be lightening up on child sex offenders.
you do realize that in one of the examples, the “perpetrator” meant no bad intent, right? He met the girl at an 18 and over bar, so he had no way of knowing she was underage. And yet he’s getting severely punished for life, because of how harsh the sex offender registry is in some states (finding housing and getting a job is impossible for him). Also, because people on the registry are punished the same way, whether you’re a rapist, child molester, or had sex with someone who lied to you about her age.


We are all responsible when it comes to making sure that the people we are sleeping with are of age.

Given some of his statements, I would take his article and the evidence therein with a grain of salt.

Interestingly, the guy “Adrian” didn’t make it into his documentary. I wonder why. :roll:
where did you get these “statements” from anyway?


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TwilightPrincess
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04 Jul 2022, 7:49 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Pointing out where age of majority is currently set means very little because AoM and AoC are both legal concepts that can be changed.

Places often restrict access to intoxicants to those who are older than AoM. You'll pay more for car insurance and won't be allowed to rent a vehicle in many places.

It seems like we recognize that adults over the age of 18 are not fully mature, so an argument that consists of nothing but 'they're an adult' means little unless it also includes '...in the portion of adulthood where one's maturity is still questioned in many contexts'

I'm not arguing to treat the children less like children, I'm more leaning into the notion that adult teenagers aren't fully developed mentally and that ought to be considered when determining what's appropriate punishment.

Except for actual malicious acts I'm willing to give young adults more leeway than people who are well into their 20s. Discretion absolutely needs to be an option otherwise injustices will occur and sadly there will be people who cheerlead for those injustices.


As the laws are not going to change anytime soon (if at all), people need to avoid having sex with minors (if for no other reason).

Age is an important determinant because laws need to operate under very specific parameters in order for them to work.


Since we don't treat 18 year olds like adults in many contexts perhaps it's time to admit they're actually still kids and maybe oughta be off-limits to people much older than them.


They are, apparently, old enough to go off to war and kill people, so they are probably old enough to avoid having sex with minors who are 5 years younger than themselves.


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 04 Jul 2022, 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.