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goldfish21
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13 Oct 2022, 12:03 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

..facts and evidence disproving conspiracy theories is not hubris.

Calling the people who fall for it idiots, however, is.

Not according to the dictionary definition of idiot, nor the dictionary definition of hubris for that matter.

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DW_a_mom
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13 Oct 2022, 12:14 am

goldfish21 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

..facts and evidence disproving conspiracy theories is not hubris.

Calling the people who fall for it idiots, however, is.

Not according to the dictionary definition of idiot, nor the dictionary definition of hubris for that matter.

You are rather proving one of my points. You are refusing to act with any measure of self-critique.

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goldfish21
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13 Oct 2022, 12:19 am

Why would I criticize myself for recognizing that stupid people believe this crap?

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Dox47
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13 Oct 2022, 4:07 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

You are rather proving one of my points. You are refusing to act with any measure of self-critique.

See what I've been dealing with? Now imagine that all your friends and neighbors are variations on this guy, and maybe you'll start to understand more of my point of view.

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DW_a_mom
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13 Oct 2022, 4:20 am

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

You are rather proving one of my points. You are refusing to act with any measure of self-critique.

See what I've been dealing with? Now imagine that all your friends and neighbors are variations on this guy, and maybe you'll start to understand more of my point of view.

I've known for a while that it happens with a fairly decent segment of the population. It's an easy pattern to fall into. I've had to really look back at myself and how I'm coming across, engage in my own self-critique, after realizing what kinds of conversation patterns were developing. I'm not one to write friends off - or allow friends to write me off - over political differences, but that is where most conversations the past 6 years want to head. So easy to say it's "their" fault, not mine, accept the break with a "why would I want to know people like that anyway," but I want something better for all of us.

Sometimes I can get more people to see it, sometimes I can't. But every so often I have to try.

I find it important to engage with people on the assumption that everyone deserves to be heard and to be respected. But I do feel it's a two way street; if I can't get someone to see what I see, I can challenge them, but I still need to respect them. Not that I'm perfect at staying in the lane.

(I did think of you as I was writing some of these posts, but I decided not to try to speak for you again. But, yes, I saw the connection)

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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 13 Oct 2022, 4:33 am, edited 3 times in total.

DW_a_mom
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13 Oct 2022, 4:23 am

goldfish21 wrote:

Why would I criticize myself for recognizing that stupid people believe this crap?

Because failing to see and understand where they are coming from, failing to respect them, will ultimately work against your own goals. I really, really, REALLY wish you could see that.

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goldfish21
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13 Oct 2022, 10:31 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

Why would I criticize myself for recognizing that stupid people believe this crap?

Because failing to see and understand where they are coming from, failing to respect them, will ultimately work against your own goals. I really, really, REALLY wish you could see that.

I think I understand where they're coming from:

Someone doing something as mundane as putting their ballots in a ballot box != evidence of election fraud. That's akin to me saying that the guy I saw driving down the street is transporting alien artefacts recovered from Roswell, or on his way to nuke a stadium downtown on behalf of the international federation of street performing mimes, or <insert any other stupid assumption that makes little or no sense>.

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DW_a_mom
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13 Oct 2022, 7:22 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

Why would I criticize myself for recognizing that stupid people believe this crap?

Because failing to see and understand where they are coming from, failing to respect them, will ultimately work against your own goals. I really, really, REALLY wish you could see that.

I think I understand where they're coming from:

<gif about stupid>

Someone doing something as mundane as putting their ballots in a ballot box != evidence of election fraud. That's akin to me saying that the guy I saw driving down the street is transporting alien artefacts recovered from Roswell, or on his way to nuke a stadium downtown on behalf of the international federation of street performing mimes, or <insert any other stupid assumption that makes little or no sense>.

It is fair to question how or why someone would deliver more than one ballot. A lot of people live in states where it would be illegal to deliver the ballot of a family member, and in most states it would be illegal to deliver the ballot of anyone that was not a family/household member. So the visual, absent additional facts, IS a big deal. Of course, in the state the video was shot, it IS legal to deliver the ballot of a family/household member, but many viewers (a) don't know that and (b) have no reason to assume the extra ballots were for a family/household member.

You really need to have a LOT more grace towards people you do not see eye to eye with. It is exactly this attitude that has driven so many Americans to want to give a big FU to everything liberal. You are working against your own - and my - goals.

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goldfish21
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13 Oct 2022, 9:07 pm

1. Umm, no. I’m not obligated to be graceful to stupid people believing stupid things.

2. You seem to keep mistaking me for a registered Democrat or something. I’m not even an American citizen and don’t live in the USA. I simply think one side of their political spectrum is dramatically better than the other at most things.

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Last edited by goldfish21 on 14 Oct 2022, 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

DW_a_mom
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14 Oct 2022, 1:13 am

goldfish21 wrote:

2. You seem to keep mistaking me for a registered Democrat or something. I’m not even an American citizen and don’t live in the USA. I simply think one side of their political spectrum is dramatically better than the other at most things.

I am aware. However. Like it or not, since you insist on commenting on American politics, you now represent a "side" in our culture wars. And I've read enough of your posts to have some idea what you think a government should look like.

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Kraichgauer
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14 Oct 2022, 11:42 pm

Here's a little news story that might be relevant.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/arizona-ag-o ... 46497.html

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goldfish21
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15 Oct 2022, 12:06 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Here's a little news story that might be relevant.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/arizona-ag-o ... 46497.html

They’re multi-scammers??!?!

No wai!

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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.

Kraichgauer
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15 Oct 2022, 12:21 am

goldfish21 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Here's a little news story that might be relevant.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/arizona-ag-o ... 46497.html

They’re multi-scammers??!?!

No wai!

! !!

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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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