Gary Younge on America’s gun obsession

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RetroGamer87
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15 Jan 2023, 10:18 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

I'm not obsessed with guns but I'm not completely against them as long as we have better laws to try and regulate them and do something to prevent these mass shootings.

That sort of talk can easily be distored into "they're coming to take our guns!"

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DeathFlowerKing
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15 Jan 2023, 10:49 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

I'm not obsessed with guns but I'm not completely against them as long as we have better laws to try and regulate them and do something to prevent these mass shootings.

That sort of talk can easily be distored into "they're coming to take our guns!"

Sorry, I forget that far left extremists are just as unmoving in their ability to compromise and be reasonable as far right extremists are. :roll:

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15 Jan 2023, 11:13 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

How exactly did I contradict myself? I meant exactly what I said.

But you know what? Whatever. I don't even care anymore. I'm tired of arguing about this.

Thought I explained it pretty thoroughly above.

You can have both. The way guns are regulated in those countries is that people can’t just own them for self defence nor carry them around with them. IF they’re allowed to own guns at all, they’re for hunting and target shooting with very strict regulations about type of gun, storage, transport etc.

You can’t Both regulate guns like they do in those countries AND let people buy/own/carry them for self defence. A big part of the reason there are fewer guns, and in turn much lower gun violence, in those countries is that people can’t buy and posses them for self defence.

So what do you do in the case of situations like DeathFlowerKing's mother? Some people really need to be able to defend themselves. I would not trust the cops to always get there in time.

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15 Jan 2023, 11:25 pm

Minder wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

How exactly did I contradict myself? I meant exactly what I said.

But you know what? Whatever. I don't even care anymore. I'm tired of arguing about this.

So what do you do in the case of situations like DeathFlowerKing's mother? Some people really need to be able to defend themselves. I would not trust the cops to always get there in time.

Yes that is EXACTLY my point! I don't understand how people who push for a total ban of firearms can disregard people who were victimized by abusers like my own mother. Cops are not especially reliable where I live when it comes to protecting women who have a restraining order against their ex husbands. Not just because they dont get their in time but because some of them are quick to take the abuser's side as has happened with my mom before.

goldfish21
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15 Jan 2023, 11:57 pm

Plenty of divorced women all over the world with crappy exes. But people don’t all pack guns around with them over it. That’s a uniquely American way to cope with anxiety/fear, as sold to y’all by the firearm industry.

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16 Jan 2023, 12:08 am

goldfish21 wrote:

I think people have the right to defend themselves with whatever means are available.

I'm not a big gun guy. I frankly detest what modern gun culture has become (it embraces irresponsible gun ownership). I do not own a gun myself, nor do I want to. Owning a gun does indeed increase the risk of accidental shootings, suicide, etc.

However, some people may be in a state where they have valid reason to fear for their safety. I am not comfortable denying someone the means to defend themselves in this way. Now having intensive background checks is fine; if someone is in danger, but also has a history of committing, say, domestic abuse... well, tough. They should've behaved better. But if someone has a clean record and bill of health, they ought to be able to protect themselves.

I wish we could rely on a safe society. I wish we could rely on police. Sadly, we cannot.

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16 Jan 2023, 12:11 am

Why can so many other countries rely on citizens and police to have a safe society without guns everywhere?

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RetroGamer87
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16 Jan 2023, 12:18 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

RetroGamer87 wrote:

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

I'm not obsessed with guns but I'm not completely against them as long as we have better laws to try and regulate them and do something to prevent these mass shootings.

That sort of talk can easily be distored into "they're coming to take our guns!"

Sorry, I forget that far left extremists are just as unmoving in their ability to compromise and be reasonable as far right extremists are. :roll:

You have just written a non sequitur. I was saying that attempts to regulate, even slightly regulate guns tends to be distorted to the point where it looks like an attempt to ban guns by people who have a vested interest in fear mongering.

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16 Jan 2023, 12:19 am

goldfish21 wrote:

I guess Canadians are just as ethnocentric as Americans. Thinking their way is superior and should be applied to a country whose problems tend to be different from their own.

RetroGamer87
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16 Jan 2023, 12:20 am

goldfish21 wrote:

Why can so many other countries rely on citizens and police to have a safe society without guns everywhere?

Don't worry Goldfish. All he wants is to live in a society that regulates guns the way countries like Australia and Japan do. If that's all he wants, he can have it

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DeathFlowerKing
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16 Jan 2023, 12:25 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

Why can so many other countries rely on citizens and police to have a safe society without guns everywhere?

Don't worry Goldfish. All he wants is to live in a society that regulates guns the way countries like Australia and Japan do. If that's all he wants, he can have it

I know for a fact that in Japan they do permit hunters to legally own hunting rifles.

goldfish21
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16 Jan 2023, 12:26 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

I guess Canadians are just as ethnocentric as Americans. Thinking their way is superior and should be applied to a country whose problems tend to be different from their own.

Yeah.. except the whole world can see that the American “solution,” of more guns = safety is actually amplifying the gun problems in the USA. And Americans continue to ignore it.

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goldfish21
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16 Jan 2023, 12:27 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

Why can so many other countries rely on citizens and police to have a safe society without guns everywhere?

Don't worry Goldfish. All he wants is to live in a society that regulates guns the way countries like Australia and Japan do. If that's all he wants, he can have it

Except he contradicts himself saying he also wants scared people to be able to arm themselves. Can’t have both.

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16 Jan 2023, 12:33 am

goldfish21 wrote:

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

I guess Canadians are just as ethnocentric as Americans. Thinking their way is superior and should be applied to a country whose problems tend to be different from their own.

Yeah.. except the whole world can see that the American “solution,” of more guns = safety is actually amplifying the gun problems in the USA. And Americans continue to ignore it.

You're completely proving my point by not listening to what im saying because you keep insisting that Canada's way should be forced on us. Not to mention the fact that you're being completely disrespectful to what my mom has went through with your "crappy ex" comment and blowing it off as if you think im either exaggerating or it's somehow not a big deal. I don't have respect for anyone who dismisses a woman who has suffered domestic violence and stalking

So... whatever.

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16 Jan 2023, 12:42 am

Pick one of many other countries besides Canada. Almost all countries have better gun violence statistics than the USA. Implement any of their systems.

Your story is a part of the American story this video is about. Anxious fearful people being made to believe that guns make them safer.. yet as more and more guns are added, more people get injured or killed by guns, thus making them less safe.

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RetroGamer87
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16 Jan 2023, 2:39 am

But... but... people have a right to defend themselves! Too bad guns don't just work for people trying to defend themselves.

This whole defend yourself with guns spiel reminds me of a man who finds a genie in a lamp. The genie says, "I can grant you one wish but whatever I give you, I will also give to your enemies".

The man says "I want to have an advantage over my enemy, therefore I wish to have deadly weapons".

And he receives deadly weapons. So do his enemies.

How is having easier acces to guns an advantage when the dude you're trying to defend yourself from also gains easier access to guns?

The only winner in that conflict is Smith & Wesson.

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