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ASPartOfMe
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09 Feb 2023, 12:06 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Some people like Marjorie Taylor Greene believe in the QAnon nonsense. Have we forgotten about this nonsense ?

We need more “moderate” Republicans.

The Republicans today are primarily reactionaries, and offer no solutions.

Podhoretz is a long-time conservative. He believes in civilized discourse, not banana-republic type crap.

Podhoretz is no moderate. He is a prominent neoconservative and editor of Commentary an neo con publication with a Jewish bent. FYI I am a subscriber to that publication because 1. For my sanity I need a break from todays tribal politics and need to read intelligent people who are both anti woke and anti MAGA. 2. On a purely personal basis I find their daily podcast an a
agreeable listen.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 09 Feb 2023, 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ASPartOfMe
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09 Feb 2023, 12:23 pm

Pepe wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
John Podhoretz
Quote:
Go ahead, call me—a conservative journalist for more than 40 years and speechwriter to Ronald Reagan—a RINO if you like, but I’ve never been more embarrassed to be associated with the Republican party than in the middle of the State of the Union when House members started openly heckling the president of the United States.

They screamed “liar and “bulls—” in the House chamber when Biden said there were Republican proposals to “sunset” Social Security and Medicare.

In point of fact, Biden is narrowly correct here. Sen. Rick Scott of Florida issued a weird proposal to make all federal legislation sunset after five years. That would include Social Security and Medicare. It was a stupid and ill-considered proposal, in part because it opened up the GOP to exactly the attack Biden staged last night.

And these barbaric House members fell right into Biden’s trap. Rather than shaking their heads, as Speaker Kevin McCarthy did behind Biden, they behaved goonishly. That’s exactly what Biden wanted. In yelling at him like drunken attendees at a WWF match who seem not to know the proceedings are fake, Marjorie Taylor Greene and her hearty band of repellent maniacs provided Biden and the Democrats with visuals and sounds they can use for the next two years to rally their own troops—and independent voters sickened by the bad behavior of politicians generally—against Republican crassness and incivility.

Polling data over the past couple of weeks have made it clear that Biden remains a highly problematic candidate for reelection. He spent most of the time in his State of the Union trying to convince Americans that he has done good things that are making their lives better or are going to make their lives better pretty soon. It’s pretty clear the American people aren’t buying it. Biden’s positive case for himself will only resonate with Democrats who would vote for any Democrat.

But what Biden and his people do seem to understand is that what saved Democrats in 2022 from the chopping block might save them in 2024: the fear among voters who will decide Biden’s fate—and the fate of Democrats running down ballot—that too many Republican politicians are weird, unpleasant, and crazy.

Biden’s speech was risible in parts, and often spectacularly beside the point. What on earth was the president of the United States doing, spending several minutes talking about resort fees paid by hotel guests, for example?
Biden devoted 271 words to the Junk Fee Protection Act. Then he disposed of America’s conflict with China in 182 words. Of those, only fifteen—“if China threatens our sovereignty, we will act to protect our country. And we did”—dealt with the balloon incursion last week, a matter so serious it forced the postponement of an official visit to China from our secretary of state.

This was not a serious speech. It was a pretty silly one, in fact. But the only thing people are going to remember is Greene screeching. It used to anger me when people insulted the GOP by adopting the old British term for the Tories—“the stupid party.” Still, better that than the “embarrassing party,” which has the advantage of being at least partly true.


Well, that is ONE opinion.
My biased right-wing source sees it differently.
But whatever. <shrug>


ASPartOfMe wrote:
Mr. Podhoretz was way way too kind. "The Insurrectionist Party" is more like it. The heckling was just a continuation of their norm-breaking for the purpose of replacing our Republic with some sort of Orbanist authoritarianism. With a few exceptions, there are two types of Republicans these days 1. Those actively seeking to destroy the Republic. 2. Cowardly selfish enablers of category 1.


This is not the balanced approach I have come to expect from you.
"Interesting". 8)


And what part of what Podhoretz wrote and my response do you disagree with?

My tone was more angry than typical but what I said is not any different from what I have been saying about the Republicans for years now.

I did not put the usual the wokes are bad also in. I have wrote wokes bad/wokes bad also enough times that people should know I am not woke. Wokes bad also is a defensive maneuver unfortunately needed because of the zero sum game thinking predominant. I was reacting to a criticism of Right Wing Republicans not Democrates.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 09 Feb 2023, 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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09 Feb 2023, 1:55 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I did not put the usual the wokes are bad also in. I have wrote wokes bad/wokes bad also enough times that people should know I am not woke. Wokes bad also is a defensive maneuver unfortunately needed because of the zero sum game thinking predominant. I was reacting to a criticism of Right Wing Republicans not Democrates.


Ironically, when you're only criticizing 'the wokes' you don't get smeared as lacking balance. It's almost like some people expect you to call things even regardless of reality, rather than voice valid criticisms.

It's not as though your history of criticism for 'the wokes' isn't widely known to posters on here, which makes it look like the real goal of the criticism you're receiving is that you're focusing on a problem with the right instead of pretending like the problem is equally distributed.

But what about all the attempted coups from the left? Not that Trump's coup was an attempted coup, it failed therefore it couldn't have been serious so let's talk about the woke instead of the totally-not-a-coup or it's supporters because taking a fair approach always means focusing critiques towards the left.
- paraphrasing our favourite enlightened centrist


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09 Feb 2023, 1:57 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Minder wrote:
I have to admit that I'm getting really tired of these "moderate" Republicans lamenting how embarrassed they are to be associated with the GOP.



Agreed.

Minder wrote:
The GOP's been the party of goons for a pretty long time now. Ever since Trump, the party's largely been fine with embracing the rude, the boorish, and the ill-informed.


I thought the Tea Party movement was when they invited the crazies to take over.


Some say they've been far right since Nixon.

To me, it was when the Tea Party movement started. I wouldn't call Reagan and the Bushes far-right. In fact. they would all be called "socialists" by the MAGAs.


The US far-right has always existed, but Nixon and Reagan wanted nothing to do with John Birch Society types.
The crazies that the GOP used to not want to be associated with now run the party.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


funeralxempire
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09 Feb 2023, 2:18 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I thought the Tea Party movement was when they invited the crazies to take over.


Yes, you can call them that from a really ignorant point of view. Because lowering taxes, reducing government spending and lowering the national debt is really crazy if you are an economic illiterate.


It's easy to defend crazy people's sanity if you focus only on their least crazy ideas and ignore everything else. :wink:


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


Josh68
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09 Feb 2023, 3:05 pm

Oddly enough Nixon was probably the last liberal, or New Deal, president we've had in this country. He amended the Fair Labor Standards Act, which saw an increase in wages of about 40%. Wages have remained fairly stagnant since then.


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09 Feb 2023, 3:19 pm

Josh68 wrote:
Oddly enough Nixon was probably the last liberal, or New Deal, president we've had in this country. He amended the Fair Labor Standards Act, which saw an increase in wages of about 40%. Wages have remained fairly stagnant since then.

He ordered a Wage and Price Freeze and was instrumental in Affirmative Action becoming policy. It was not done out of the good of his heart, pure political calculation.


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09 Feb 2023, 3:30 pm

Yep. I know Podhorotz is considered quite conservative— but he did seek to explore other viewpoints.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZNei3jMr0c

Here, in 1965, he is speaking to Claude Brown, who wrote “Manchild in The Promised Land.”



Josh68
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09 Feb 2023, 3:38 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Josh68 wrote:
Oddly enough Nixon was probably the last liberal, or New Deal, president we've had in this country. He amended the Fair Labor Standards Act, which saw an increase in wages of about 40%. Wages have remained fairly stagnant since then.

He ordered a Wage and Price Freeze and was instrumental in Affirmative Action becoming policy. It was not done out of the good of his heart, pure political calculation.


I remember reading something about a huge protest outside the White House before they the fences and the security they had today. Nixon was afraid they were going to break in and get them all. It scared him enough to implement some positive changes.

Even FDR would probably not implement the New Deal without public pressure. Unfortunately, we just don't have those kinds of movements any longer in the U.S. People are too wrapped up in identity politics and partisan bickering across cultural lines.


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09 Feb 2023, 4:16 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I thought the Tea Party movement was when they invited the crazies to take over.


Yes, you can call them that from a really ignorant point of view. Because lowering taxes, reducing government spending and lowering the national debt is really crazy if you are an economic illiterate.


It's easy to defend crazy people's sanity if you focus only on their least crazy ideas and ignore everything else. :wink:


Which are the crazy ideas that the tea party movement has that you mention?



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09 Feb 2023, 4:25 pm

In Australia when we say
moderate conservative = economic conservative
extreme conservative = social conservative

The latter are more engrossed in sticking their nose in the lives of people encroaching on personal freedoms.
The current obsession conservatives have over trans, BLM, CRT, diversity and feminism which they throw into "wokeness" is a good example of where conservatives encroach on personal freedoms of others.

The pretence of protecting personal freedom comes undone when they do the opposite in attacking small children in school who are having gender identity issues. Under the pretence of protecting "normal children" they want to take away the rights of these children.



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09 Feb 2023, 8:00 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I thought the Tea Party movement was when they invited the crazies to take over.


Yes, you can call them that from a really ignorant point of view. Because lowering taxes, reducing government spending and lowering the national debt is really crazy if you are an economic illiterate.


It's easy to defend crazy people's sanity if you focus only on their least crazy ideas and ignore everything else. :wink:


Which are the crazy ideas that the tea party movement has that you mention?


First, let's not ignore the increased importance of the John Birch Society after the Tea Party began. 2010 was the first year the JBS was involved with CPAC. As for the JBS:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birc ... _positions

Let's not forget the Agenda 21 nonsense. Or the Balanced Budget Amendment. Or their desire to repeal the 16th and 17th Amendments. Or the guano that regularly spills from the mouths of people like Ted Cruz, Louis Gohmert, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann; not to mention how much crazier outspoken members of the base can be.

To the extent that Ron Paul can be cited as an ideological inspiration one barely needs to scratch the surface before they start encountering his guano. Seeking to return to the gold standard might be one of the low hanging fruit examples.

That's not to mention the content of his newsletters, I'm not interested in who wrote the racist and homophobic parts though. I'm more concerned about:

Quote:
According to one of the associates, Paul's former secretary (and a self-described supporter of his 2012 Presidential campaign) Renae Hathway, Paul was a "hands-on boss" who would come into the Houston office, about 50 miles (80 km) from home, about once a week. She said, "It was his newsletter, and it was under his name, so he always got to see the final product... He would proof it." She also said, "We had tons of subscribers, from all over the world... I never had one complaint about the content."


Because that means those views are normal and accepted within that circle.

Moving from the actual politicians, the prominence of conspiracy theorists like Glenn Beck and Alex Jones and their influence on the mainstream right really seems undeniable. Does the batshit they peddle become acceptable because you agree with them on a few ideological points, or because you just agree with them?


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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09 Feb 2023, 9:56 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I thought the Tea Party movement was when they invited the crazies to take over.


Yes, you can call them that from a really ignorant point of view. Because lowering taxes, reducing government spending and lowering the national debt is really crazy if you are an economic illiterate.


OUCH! 8O :mrgreen:



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09 Feb 2023, 9:59 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
What we need is more cooperation in Congress, rather than legislators strutting around like peacocks.


Agreed.
Groupthink is an anti-intellectual, hyperpartisan obscenity.



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09 Feb 2023, 10:07 pm

JimJohn wrote:
Apparently the insurrectionists got what they wanted and then turned around and went home. They accomplished nothing other than take some selfies.


I am not sure what the BLM insurrectionists achieved, agreed.

JimJohn wrote:
Apparently, they didn’t do enough damage to the building to require repairs other than a broken window or two. It wasn’t closed for business. They didn’t have to switch to another building.


I beg to differ.
The BLM rioters caused over a billion dollars of damage and put many black entrepreneurs out of business.

JimJohn wrote:
They caught no one at the scene of the crime. They relied on selfies and Facebook to catch people.

ANTIFA are insurrectionists by their own definition. They wear masks. I think you can rely on insurrectionists to self label?

I understand you have to befriend people for making such points or at least call them names that end in IST. It is crazy anyway you slice it left or right.


"Extremists be crazy." 8O

My contribution has been a satirical post.
"Have a nice day." 8)



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09 Feb 2023, 10:11 pm

it is precisely the rightie tools who think they can balance the budget on the backs of the poor, who are the "economic illiterates." they oughta have listened to frank sutton when he said he robbed banks because "that's where the money is." the MICC are in the position of the banks in sutton's era. that is where the money is, and one whole political party is so up the nether quarters of the MICC that they refuse to even consider touching our bloated military budget.