Page 2 of 7 [ 109 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

shortfatbalduglyman
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,379

21 Feb 2023, 10:25 am

When I was 36, a physician in Gender Clinic went into great depth about in ventro fertilization. Even though she asked if I wanted children and I answered "no", she kept pressuring me to have children. But it doesn't affect her if I had children. She wrote on the medical report that I said "I do not ever want to have children." "Ever"? that makes it sound like a long time.

Besides, over 35 pregnancy is "geriatric pregnancy."

not everyone is suited to have children. personality, time, energy, cash, whatever.

overpopulation

Successfully refraining from having children might be the one correct thing I have done in 39 years.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 43
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,452
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

21 Feb 2023, 11:46 am

Pepe wrote:
Quote:
You Will Change Your Mind - What I heard as an antinatalist.
antinatalist-thoughts
211 subscribers
949 views Feb 6, 2023
Not wanting kids is socially unacceptable.
While you can get away by saying things like "we are trying really hard for a baby" in front of your family.

"I don't want to have kids" is not an invitation for you to convince me to have kids.
Also, antinatalism is not about hating kids.
For me, it is about loving my kids so much, that I would never make them go through the burden of existence.




I like her.

I wonder what is her nationality. South Asian or Middle eastern perhaps.



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

21 Feb 2023, 5:59 pm

Interesting topic.

Well...to be perfectly honest, I never really wanted children. For me, it was more/less "part of the deal" when I got married.

Now, I can't imagine life being any other way.

As to whether you or anyone else SHOULD have children, I think that's your decision. There's a reason to have children, PLENTY of reasons not to, and it's nobody else's business what you want to do.

I repeat...it's nobody else's business what you choose to do.

As far as people telling you you'll regret not having children or whatever, this is what I've noticed: With people who said when they were younger they absolutely would never, EVER have children, and I'm really referring more to women here, there's a certain finality to saying absolutely no to children. By your 40's/50's, the time has passed for having children. So I think there's a degree of looking back on things you never did and experiencing anxiety that you've missed a grand opportunity. I'm not going to say "Oh, you'll regret it if you don't," or "you'll change your mind" and try to convince someone she should have children. But I will say that it quite often happens that way.

In my experience, having children has really enhanced my life. Having kids is a HUGE responsibility. As they grow, so do the demands they place on you as a parent. Everyone wants the best for their children. So there's a certain amount of pressure to perform better at your job, to expect raises and promotions, to take on leadership and volunteer roles, become involved in the community, etc. etc. etc. because you're really just thinking about how things are going to be better for your children.

Then you reach that part of life where the kids are all gone and you HOPE they visit and bring the grand babies. I'm not in that season of life yet, but it's not far off. So you keep working and keep working and stay busy, but you have all this extra money and time on your hands. Then it's like, hey, I can do ANYTHING I want! And then everything you touch turns to gold.

It's not that you have to have kids to do all that. Plenty of people are hugely successful as young adults before they marry and have kids. But I think when you have kids it pushes you to quit bad habits, form positive habits, and become the kind of person you'd want to see as a role model for others. There's no guarantee you'll retire rich or anything like that. It's not some genie in a bottle. But I do think it pushes you more to be self-motivated and work hard. It forces you be more reasonable in your values, and that returns dividends in the long run for many people.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

21 Feb 2023, 9:54 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Quote:
You Will Change Your Mind - What I heard as an antinatalist.
antinatalist-thoughts
211 subscribers
949 views Feb 6, 2023
Not wanting kids is socially unacceptable.
While you can get away by saying things like "we are trying really hard for a baby" in front of your family.

"I don't want to have kids" is not an invitation for you to convince me to have kids.
Also, antinatalism is not about hating kids.
For me, it is about loving my kids so much, that I would never make them go through the burden of existence.




I like her.

I wonder what is her nationality. South Asian or Middle eastern perhaps.


You have a girlfriend, remember? :mrgreen:

I am poor at judging things like this but I had the impression she might be Indian or Pakistani.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

21 Feb 2023, 9:57 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Interesting topic.

Well...to be perfectly honest, I never really wanted children. For me, it was more/less "part of the deal" when I got married.


There is a passage in the Bible where it says something like: a person's first duty is to God, but if one must have children, so be it.
Have you come across it?



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

21 Feb 2023, 10:00 pm

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:

Successfully refraining from having children might be the one correct thing I have done in 39 years.


Me too.
Have a gold star: :star: :mrgreen:



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

22 Feb 2023, 2:29 am

Quote:
I wish I'd never been born: the rise of the anti-natalists

Adherents view life not as a gift and a miracle, but a harm and an imposition. And their notion that having children may be a bad idea seems to be gaining mainstream popularity

Quote:
In February, a 27-year-old Indian man named Raphael Samuel announced plans for an unusual lawsuit. He was going to sue his parents for begetting him. “It was not our decision to be born,” he told the BBC. “Human existence is totally pointless.”

Samuel recently told me over Skype from Mumbai that his is a good life, and he is actually close to his parents. His complaint is more fundamental: he believes it is wrong to bring new people into the world without their consent. He wanted to sue his parents for a symbolic amount of money, such as a single rupee, “to instill that fear among parents in general. Because now parents don’t think before having a child,” he told me.

Samuel subscribes to a philosophy called anti-natalism. The basic tenet of anti-natalism is simple but, for most of us, profoundly counterintuitive: that life, even under the best of circumstances, is not a gift or a miracle, but rather a harm and an imposition. According to this logic, the question of whether to have a child is not just a personal choice but an ethical one – and the correct answer is always no.

Since his announcement, the lawsuit has not gotten off the ground. “I have been clearly told by a sitting judge that I will be fined by the court for wasting its time,” Samuel said. Still, his lawsuit gave the anti-natalist movement a boost, even earning a bemused mention by Stephen Colbert. In May, Dana Wells, a 37-year-old Dallas-based woman who goes by “The Friendly Antinatalist” on YouTube, posted a video featuring the Colbert clip and congratulating Samuel. “We all owe you a round of applause,” she said. “It feels like we’ve arrived. It feels like the big time!”

The notion that having children may be a bad idea seems to be gaining mainstream popularity. But when we hear about it, it’s most often in the context of the climate crisis: activists are worried about bringing children into a world threatened by rising seas, mass displacement and other calamities. Anti-natalists, however, believe that procreation has always been and always will be wrong because of life’s inevitable suffering. What is similar about both anti-natalists and climate activists is they are seeing an increase in attention due to general pessimism about the state of the world, giving both more opportunities to gain support.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ate-change



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

22 Feb 2023, 2:38 am

Quote:
n 2006, the South African philosopher David Benatar published a book which is widely credited with introducing the term anti-natalism. In Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence, Benatar quotes the Greek tragedian Sophocles (“Never to have been born is best / But if we must see the light, the next best / Is quickly returning whence we came”) and the text of Ecclesiastes (“So I have praised the dead that are already dead more than the living that are yet alive; but better than both of them is he who has not yet been, who has not seen the evil work that is done under the sun”). These quotes suggest that the sentiments at the heart of anti-natalism have been around for a very long time.


Quote:
A man named Les Knight launched the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (VHEMT) with the goal of “Phasing out the human race by voluntarily ceasing to breed”, as stated on the website that he launched in 1996.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ate-change



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

22 Feb 2023, 2:48 am

Quote:
For the first time, she encountered the terms “childfree” and “anti-natalism”. She began “to see that this life game is an imposition”. For her, it was simple: “Living things can be harmed. Non-living things cannot be harmed.”


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ate-change

Pepe's: "Where there is life, there is suffering." 8)



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 43
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,452
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

22 Feb 2023, 4:50 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I've never noticed a pressure for women to have children.
Not for myself, my daughter, or the women I've known at school and work.
Maybe it's cultural.
Maybe it's because I view things through an ND lens.

I don't think there's a pressure for men to have children either.


Yes there is, in some places.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 43
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,452
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

22 Feb 2023, 4:51 am

Pepe wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Quote:
You Will Change Your Mind - What I heard as an antinatalist.
antinatalist-thoughts
211 subscribers
949 views Feb 6, 2023
Not wanting kids is socially unacceptable.
While you can get away by saying things like "we are trying really hard for a baby" in front of your family.

"I don't want to have kids" is not an invitation for you to convince me to have kids.
Also, antinatalism is not about hating kids.
For me, it is about loving my kids so much, that I would never make them go through the burden of existence.




I like her.

I wonder what is her nationality. South Asian or Middle eastern perhaps.


You have a girlfriend, remember? :mrgreen:

I am poor at judging things like this but I had the impression she might be Indian or Pakistani.


My girlfriend is too pro natalist though.

"Her: I want a ba-"
"Me: No"

And she already has two teen kids and she's already 41, I don't understand this strange desire of hers.

"Her: But it's not nice to grow old without any child to take care of you".
"Me: That's my problem only".



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

22 Feb 2023, 5:05 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

My girlfriend is too pro natalist though.

"Her: I want a ba-"
"Me: No"

And she already has two teen kids and she's already 41, I don't understand this strange desire of hers.

"Her: But it's not nice to grow old without any child to take care of you".
"Me: That's my problem only".


Hooah! 8)



DuckHairback
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2021
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,484
Location: Durotriges Territory

22 Feb 2023, 7:49 am

I don't think it should be overlooked that part of the impulse to tell people they should have children probably comes from a desire to share something people have found pleasurable. If you've had the experience of raising children and found it to be life-enriching then it's quite natural and, dare I say it, good, to want others to have that experience too.

No different from recommending a book or a film that changed your perspective on life in a way you feel is positive. Or telling someone they should go on holiday to somewhere you like.

The idea that that this would be felt as pressure by people who have come to a different conclusion says more about them to me, than the people recommending child-rearing.

The 'you'll change your mind' thing is no different from when young kids say they hate the opposite sex and parents say 'you'll change your mind'. They say it because they've been through the same experience. It's smug and annoying and it may not apply to you but it isn't pressure.

And this isn't to say that there aren't people who will tell you you have a responsibility to procreate in case your baby cures cancer or solves climate change, or that God hates you if you don't. Of course there are, but who wants to listen to those kinds of people anyway?

But I suspect that what I've described above would account for the vast majority of what's felt as 'pressure' and is more likely to be sensitivity to what is perceived as criticism or judgement.


_________________

Les grands garçons sont dans les boucheries


Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 20,484
Location: Aux Arcs

22 Feb 2023, 11:11 am

My daughter opted to not have children and I support her.I have seen parents put the pressure on asking when they will be grandparents.Sometimes when people ask her if she has kids and she says no they look sad and then tell her there is still time.When she says she doesn’t plan on it ever they act shocked.
Son has one kid and wants a vasectomy but insurance won’t cover it.


_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi


Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,386
Location: Llareggub

22 Feb 2023, 11:25 am

You could donate to sperm banks.


_________________
"We are all gonna die." --Senator Joni Ernst


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

22 Feb 2023, 7:56 pm

Misslizard wrote:
My daughter opted to not have children and I support her.I have seen parents put the pressure on asking when they will be grandparents.Sometimes when people ask her if she has kids and she says no they look sad and then tell her there is still time.When she says she doesn’t plan on it ever they act shocked.
Son has one kid and wants a vasectomy but insurance won’t cover it.


Perhaps a "Go Fund Me" page needs to be set up. :mrgreen: