The Right's Contradiction

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Slytherin House

The problem comes when people try to mix politics and religion (of any type, even certain secular goals can become the equivalent of a religion). It is the religious aspect that determines how people view what is right and what is wrong, and freedom has always been constrained by the rule that there is no freedom to commit a broadly acknowledged evil. One of the many reasons why the USA founders were adamant about the separation of church and state, a concept that is very much in danger right now. We have a large segment of the population that feels threatened by the values being advanced by secular society and who have allowed themselves to become convinced those values represent an evil that most be stopped, no matter the cost.

Persephone29, I take a small issue or two with your transgender athletics example. It is my understanding that most of the natural advantages and disadvantages from the birth chromosomes are removed by the hormonal and chemical changes induced in the transition process. Even if they weren't, the percentage of athletes that wish to compete as transgender and having enough talent to win as such is so tiny that it doesn't have any real statistical relevance. Is this rarity worth all the discussion and conflict? Balancing the rights and risks on both sides can be difficult, but the most libertarian vision would be to simply let competition organizers decide, which is basically how I believe it was done before conservatives decided to force the issue as part of their culture wars. The laws being made are to prohibit event organizers from choosing to allow a trans female from competing as female, never the other way around. The most fair answer is going to vary depending on the people and the facts, and thus is most likely to be achieved by citizens on the ground without government interference. No choice will ever be perfect; human nature is what it is; but at least participants could then pick and choose events based on their personal needs.

If hormones solve all problems (they don't because muscle has memory), then give the biological women the right to use testosterone to overcome the muscle memory of their biologically male opponents. Let the true women dope to even the playing fields and I'll shut up.

Why can’t they just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and compete without government intervention?

Never quite understood a feminist movement arguing for complete equality and then demanding segregation in sports vs best human winning in individual sports and best team assembled in team sports. Must be some right wing logic thing.

I'm not a feminist myself, but I think equal pay for equal work and intelligence is not quite the same as say, an arm wrestling match.

The muscles of biological males have had years of subjection to testosterone. They have grown larger, longer, stronger. Simply exposing them to feminizing hormones won't erase that memory. They doped before they became trans women athletes, then attempt to mitigate the effects of those hormones with estrogen, or whatever it is they take. So, if they insist on competing unfairly, let the biological women dope to even the odds. Everybody's happy ... not really, as hormones are dangerous when used for things other than therapeutic reasons. But, at least this way they might stand a better chance.

So, you’re an Endocrinologist and Know these things to be true vs the contradictory info DW_a_mom posted?

I’m not an expert on the subject. But it seems to me you simply have biases.

So, even segregating genders, women born with high testosterone should be discriminated against in women’s sports?

All of it just seems like nonsense. Competition is competitive. May the best competitor win.

It worked fairly until the men started cheating. So, apparently there was enough of an even playing field that everyone felt their chances were fair. Now, put one man in and he's several body lengths in front of the strongest female swimmer. You can't tell me that's chance... I think you have your own bias.

It worked fairly until the men started cheating. So, apparently there was enough of an even playing field that everyone felt their chances were fair. Now, put one man in and he's several body lengths in front of the strongest female swimmer. You can't tell me that's chance... I think you have your own bias.