Regarding Netflix's Black Cleopatra

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Pepe
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28 Apr 2023, 6:11 am

Honey69 wrote:

Is there anyone complaining that Brendan Frazier isn't really morbidly obese? Couldn't they have found someone who was authentically fat for the lead in The Whale ?

Virtually ANYONE can be obese if they put their mind to it.
Perhaps THAT makes the difference?
Interesting idea. :chin:

Fnord
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28 Apr 2023, 6:16 am

SarahBea wrote:

Fnord wrote:

The_Walrus wrote:

Fnord wrote:

When will Broadway / Disney / Hollywood / Netflix / whatever deliver something new and original? When will they stop remaking remakes of remakes?

There is no shortage of original programming. In fact, this story is about original programming! It is part of a series examining various African Queens - a group of which Cleopatra is by far the most famous.

With all due respect, you seem to have a much broader opinion than I of what constitutes original programming.

[opinion=mine]

Never-before seen characters and plots would be a good place to start.

Besides, I get enough of the same old same-o by going to church every Sunday.

[/opinion]

So because Shakespeare did a Cleopatra story, nobody else can?

I never said that, and you know it.

My complaint it that there is no original content being created in the entertainment media. Broadway / Disney / Hollywood / Netflix / whatever are either remaking remakes of remakes, or adding sequels to products that have already fulfilled their plots in the first episode.

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Pepe
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28 Apr 2023, 6:19 am

Fnord wrote:

The_Walrus wrote:

Fnord wrote:

When will Broadway / Disney / Hollywood / Netflix / whatever deliver something new and original? When will they stop remaking remakes of remakes?

A blue-eyed blonde Jesus is hilarious.

Pepe
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28 Apr 2023, 6:23 am

Remember, I come from Australia.
And no, I don't have a problem with this.

Readydaer
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28 Apr 2023, 6:55 am

Pepe wrote:

Remember, I come from Australia.

And no, I don't have a problem with this.

b-b-b-but muh advertising!

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MatchboxVagabond
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28 Apr 2023, 8:14 am

lil_hippie wrote:

It's actually a big deal that Cleopatra is black. There's a huge group of people out there who want to reframe Egyptians as black so that Africa as a whole looks better historically since not much technical innovation has come out of there.

I think this is silly. Egypt belongs to the Mediterranean and the mid-eastern world surrounded by it. This struggle, between racists who want to paint Africa in a poor light, and those who think its a good idea to fight back against it by overhyping Africa, is a conversation I have little interest in lol, I find it goofy and something silly to argue about.

Yes, people forget that the black Africans are from subsaharan Africa and excludes those that came later as the result of colonization. It's pretty racist to suggest that people who have been living where they are now for thousands of years aren't African because they're not dark enough.

Then you've got the white Africans in parts that were much darker in complexion that have been there since colonial times, but didn't move out. They were born there and increasingly had nothing to do with colonial problems. Or, my cousins that were born in Malawi and didn't even leave Africa until they were in school.

Perhaps rather than trying to rewrite history, it might be better to just make people less ignorant about African history as there was a lot of really cool stuff done by Africans over the millennia that most people are just completely ignorant of.

MatchboxVagabond
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28 Apr 2023, 8:16 am

Pepe wrote:

Remember, I come from Australia.

And no, I don't have a problem with this.

TBH, considering that Santa Claus is almost entirely a marketing thing, I see no particular reason for him to not be black in areas where that's what the population looks like. Although in America, it might require a bit of explanation as to how he's climbing on people's rooftops and down the chimneys without being shot at by cops and residents. (Only partially joking there sadly)

Pepe
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28 Apr 2023, 8:22 am

MatchboxVagabond wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Remember, I come from Australia.

And no, I don't have a problem with this.

"How dare you!"
Santa was a REAL person...and his flying reindeers were REAL too!! !

The_Face_of_Boo
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28 Apr 2023, 9:47 am

lil_hippie wrote:

And the Kushite kingdoms (Nubians) did build their own great pyramids as well, so I don't get this obsession to make Ancient Egyptians black.

Cleopatra was mosly Macedonian.

The_Face_of_Boo
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28 Apr 2023, 9:53 am

cyberdad wrote:

Oh it just get's worse

I really wish Egyptians learn their own history and stop trying to claim historical figures who happen to be ruling in Egypt as "them"

I didn't watch the entire 13 mins of this video, but both Bassem and her aren't denying the Greek ancestry of Cleopatra; but she was most likely culturally Egyptian.

Bassem is on point, the whole thing does sound an Afrocentrist agenda.

naturalplastic
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28 Apr 2023, 4:15 pm

Honey69 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIt5xTvpNtI

OK. So you're point is that though Fraser was heroic in wearing these prosetics to play the role...it all would have been unnessary if they had found a real guy who was already and extreme lard-ass to play the character.

But then the real morbidly obese person would have to go through heroic real drama to shed the weight for the movie ( I assume that the character doesnt stay fat at the end, but I could be wrong).

Brenden Fraser could just take off the prosethetics to play the triumphant slim version of the character at the end.

But I suppose you could have a real extreme obese person really lose weight for the movie. Which would be dramatic in and of itself.

So it would be like a human version of the movie "Born Free"... based upon a real couple in the Sixties living in Africa who taught a captive lioness to live in the wild, and then when they made a movie about it... the folks involved in making the movie had to teach the lions who played the lioness to...live free in the wild...and later made documentaries about that too.

naturalplastic
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28 Apr 2023, 4:27 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Oh it just get's worse

I really wish Egyptians learn their own history and stop trying to claim historical figures who happen to be ruling in Egypt as "them"

I finnally got around watching her.

In the first 8 minutes she is 100 percent right on!

The whole 13 minutes is fine.

She doesnt like Cleo being played by Lilly White actresses either. Acknowledges the queens White ancestry and makes the same point I made that the American Black movie fans are hanging their Black pride on "Egypt's Whitest queen".

In essence she offended that American Blacks and Whites make her country into pawn in America's own racial strife.

Couldnt agree more. Egyptians (ancient and modern) cant even be stuffed into the American south's Jim Crow era two racial peg holes of "Whites" (people from Northwest Europe) and "Blacks" (people taken as slaves from West Africa). Egypt was mix of above the Sahara and below Saharan peoples most of whom came from places a thousand miles or more from where the ancestors of either MLK Jr. or of Jefferson Davis came from.

Pepe
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28 Apr 2023, 7:18 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

But I suppose you could have a real extreme obese person really lose weight for the movie. Which would be dramatic in and of itself.

Totally impractical and unworkable, IMO.
And how many obese ppl suitable for the roll role is there?

naturalplastic
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28 Apr 2023, 9:23 pm

I agree that it would be unworkable for a real morbidly obese person to slim down for a movie.

Though...apparently (SPOILER ALERT!) Frasier doesnt actually slim down in the movie after all.

James Corden was considered for the role. So there are some mildly obese actors who could do it. But yes...no 600 pound folks who could act like that.

MatchboxVagabond
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28 Apr 2023, 9:35 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

IMHO, it would be horribly unethical to cast somebody that overweight anyways, at least anybody under like 7feet tall. There's enough pressure on actors to gain and lose unhealthy amount of weight for roles as it is

cyberdad
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28 Apr 2023, 9:54 pm

SarahBea wrote:

So because Shakespeare did a Cleopatra story, nobody else can?
It’s impossible to be truly original. A character has a desire, seeks to fulfil it, and changes during the process? We’ve seen it all before!
For me, if it isn’t a sequel, an adaptation, or a remake, that’s “original”. You’re not using existing intellectual property.
.

Incredibly insightful. The whole argument rests on whom owns the IP for Cleopatra. Certainly not Shakespeare.

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