Its a cold war between the right and left....

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Pepe
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30 Apr 2023, 8:06 pm

Honey69 wrote:
In the USA, we don't even have a "Left." All that we have are normal people and right wing nutjobs.


There are "nut jobs" on BOTH sides of the political divide. :wink:



Pepe
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30 Apr 2023, 8:33 pm

Honey69 wrote:
Do you have an actual "left" in Australia?


Yes...
There are in government now: The Labor Party.



MatchboxVagabond
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30 Apr 2023, 8:38 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Well, trying to dismantle the police force, as an example.
Stupid idea and black ppl are suffering because of the consequences of this pressure on the police.

The "defund the police" slogan as used by most of its advocates refers to an attempt to stabilise society by transferring some of the money from conventional policing to other initiatives which (it is argued) work better. Granted, there may be a few extremists who would simply zap the entire police force at a stroke, but it's hard to see how they would ever get the power to do that.

Strangely enough, it was the somewhat right-wing Tory government in the UK that cut police funding a few years ago, claiming that there was no correlation between the number of "bobbies on the beat" and crime prevention, and that "you can't arrest the crime problem away." Unfortunately the same Tory government were also cutting public service spending generally, so there was no intention of putting anything else in place of the cops. Their arguments were nothing to do with trying to directly make the country a better place for ordinary people to live in. The Tories had a safe parliamentary majority at the time. Since then they've become rather scared of losing elections, and they've started to return some of the money they took from the cops. Last time I looked, police corruption had become quite an issue, and the gov was vowing to root it out. But we've had inquiries and working parties about such problems for decades now, and nothing seems to have improved.

It was always a dumb slogan that lacked any meaningful definition and as such any number off people could use it to any number of ends and still technically support it.



MatchboxVagabond
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30 Apr 2023, 8:41 pm

:P

Pepe wrote:
Honey69 wrote:
In the USA, we don't even have a "Left." All that we have are normal people and right wing nutjobs.


There are "nut jobs" on BOTH sides of the political divide. :wink:

I think the point is that we have a right-wing party and a center-right party and pretty much no legitimately left-wing party with any hope of winning anything soon. And both parties are moving as quickly as possible to the right.



Pepe
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30 Apr 2023, 9:20 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Well, trying to dismantle the police force, as an example.
Stupid idea and black ppl are suffering because of the consequences of this pressure on the police.

The "defund the police" slogan as used by most of its advocates refers to an attempt to stabilise society by transferring some of the money from conventional policing to other initiatives which (it is argued) work better. Granted, there may be a few extremists who would simply zap the entire police force at a stroke, but it's hard to see how they would ever get the power to do that.


The extremists on the left saw the police force as part of the white privilege system. Hence they wanted to dismantle it.
The irony is, it was the Black community that suffered the most when police were withdrawn from some areas of the community.

The attack on the police force caused many officers to disengage from situations that might cause further accusations of police brutality.
The whole situation went to shite at one stage, but we don't seem to hear about it these days.
Hopefully, things are back to "normal" in that the police are protecting the public the way they "should".



ToughDiamond
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01 May 2023, 2:17 pm

Pepe wrote:
The extremists on the left saw the police force as part of the white privilege system. Hence they wanted to dismantle it.

I think the police force's job has always to some extent been to defend inequality, and that there is a degree of racism in it. If only there hadn't been, we might never have seen any backlash.



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04 May 2023, 2:36 pm

America is very divided right now. I lean towards the right. Republicans stand up more for the things that mean something to me.


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Mona Pereth
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09 Jun 2023, 2:48 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
The "defund the police" slogan as used by most of its advocates refers to an attempt to stabilise society by transferring some of the money from conventional policing to other initiatives which (it is argued) work better.

"Defund the police" is a really awful slogan, IMO. I sure hope they'll eventually come up with a better slogan, like maybe: "Replace the police"? "Re-structure the police"? "Re-envision the police"? The point being that what's needed is more than just a few superficial reforms.


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09 Jun 2023, 3:34 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
The "defund the police" slogan as used by most of its advocates refers to an attempt to stabilise society by transferring some of the money from conventional policing to other initiatives which (it is argued) work better.

"Defund the police" is a really awful slogan, IMO. I sure hope they'll eventually come up with a better slogan, like maybe: "Replace the police"? "Re-structure the police"? "Re-envision the police"? The point being that what's needed is more than just a few superficial reforms.


Yeah, those would all be better choices that would better reflect the actual intent.


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mrpieceofwork
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09 Jun 2023, 3:58 pm

While it's certainly not being fought with guns and bombs (yet) it is in no way a "cold" war. The ghouls are actively using everything in their "arsenal" to "beat down" any and all "fronts" to their power. Also, the "Left" in the west is NOT the anti-capitalist program you think it is.


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09 Jun 2023, 4:55 pm

i just want the same "capitalism with a human face" that places like canada and sweden have.