The Conflict Based on a Lie: Reevaluating The Six Day War

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Suggestion: Find another member to make time consuming demands of, this isn't the first time I've called you on it.

!	magz wrote:
	Please, comment the topic not each other.

I hope I'm allowed a brief defense of myself before going back to topic.

What I wrote was intended as a time-saving (in the long run, at least) suggestion, not a time-consuming demand.

And it is a suggestion based on my own experience. I myself used to have a signature line that consisted of a link to my intro thread, before I created my website. Being able to refer to my intro thread, and/or subsequently to my website, has definitely been a time-saver for me in the long run. All the more so would it likely be a time-saver for you, given how often you complain about being misunderstood.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 27 Aug 2023, 8:16 am, edited 4 times in total.

Anyhow, back to topic: I've always found various issues surrounding the state of Israel to be very confusing.

There seems to be fundamental disagreement on the most basic facts of Israel's history. I don't feel qualified to sort this out.

To add to the confusion, another thing I've noticed is that there are people on both sides who do everything they can to provoke hatred of the other side and to be maximally offensive to the other side. For example, there are Zionists who apparently think that the way to win sympathy for Israel is to stir up Islamophobia. On the other hand, the Hamas charter refers approvingly to the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion."

Here in NYC, during the decade or so after 9/11, I witnessed firsthand (and joined in protests against) the irrational Islamophobia (e.g. the hullabaloo against the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque") that some Zionists were trying to whip up. On the other hand, I was also concerned about what looked to me like a revival of traditional anti-Jewish grand conspiracy ideology (e.g. by some branches of the "9/11 Truth" movement).

This is if off topic as it is not about the six day war. Be warned I am going to further derail this thread.

One aspect that makes this difficult to discuss is anti zionism a form of anti semitism controversy. When we were growing up this was a non issue. For the most part people of all political stripes were “Pro Israel”. That is just not true now. Current Progressives are often what 60s-70s liberals were not ranging from very critical of Israel to rooting for the Palestinians against Israel. The “Pro Zionist” media are full of reports of zionists being cancelled, polls showing Jewish students feeling unsafe etc. In the wake of all of that and the popularity of BDS movement a main pro zionist talking point is that anti-zionism is a form of anti-semitism. They have had decent success in getting a getting a definition of anti-Semitism
that includes anti-zionism passed. Adding to this mess is that in the Israeli Palestinian conflict seems to fit neatly into the critical race theory influenced notion that Jews are white or white adjacent oppressors of Palestinian people of color and the conservative “fundies” being pro zionists on steroids because they need Israel to be there for the rapture to happen.

In short the Israel Palestinian conflict has become part of America’s culture war.

My opinion is that being anti zionist does not make one automatically anti Jewish. Most Americans marching for BDS are probably not anti Jewish. That said anti-semitism is a prominent element of anti-zionism not only Hamas but BDS founders have said similar things. In most man in the occupied territories street interviews those interviewed most often refer to Jews not Israelis. Over here a popular slogan in pro Palestinian demonstrations has become “From river to sea”. This evokes Holocaust 2.0 more than it does that multi ethnic state to replace Israel the anti zionist spokes people claim to favor.

Time to rerail this thread

You can find a lot of reliable sourcing documenting this history of the period known in Israel as “The Waiting”. In Israel this seems to be well understood. I find it pretty credible that with most of the population Holocaust survivors, children of Holocaust survivors, and orphans of Holocaust victims people would be freaked out by five countries promising to destroy them and not seeing that those counties were not unified and their militaries incompetent. Even the Prime Minister despite his generals telling him otherwise seemed to be scared out of his wits.
And it is understandable that the population would interpret the lighting victory as a miracle.

In America this “miracle” view of history is still the propagated by pro zionists. Even those critical of Israel who view the six day war as a turning point that lead Israel to become a cocky Jewish supremacist state are ignorant of what actually happened.