Going to Japan made me dislike my own country even more...

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RedDeathFlower13
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07 Dec 2023, 12:14 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
Yes there does seem to be something kind of "spiritual" about Japan that the USA doesn't have so much of.


It's not even just the spirituality, in Japan I felt like the people there had real pride in their country which is also lacking here in the states. They weren't a bunch of self-loathing-would-be-deserters like the majority of Americans I know back home are.

In the US with this political turmoil we are having I feel like I'm surrounded by theocrats and pseudo communist wannabes who are ready to burn everything down and riot at the drop of a red MAGA hat.

The so-called "patriotism" of the US isnt real patriotism at all! In Japan they have real patriotism because they genuinely care about their country and community. I'm beginning to see why America's patriotism rubs people the wrong way (although I think I always knew why on some level...)

Frankly I think so many Americans are just too damn selfish, self-centered, and ethnocentric and that includes the leftist types who like to think they're enlightened when they're really not.


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Mountain Goat
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07 Dec 2023, 12:57 pm

First thing I will say is you have been very brave to go abroad. I havenever been and for me the experience to try and get past customs would mean even if I spent thousands on the flight, I would turn around and walk out! I also would need to be near a window so if I panic and need air, I can open the window, but I don't like the idea of being hemmed in by people sitting next to me as claustrophobic. Never been on a plane.
I did fancy going by ferry to France, and drive to places from there to eventually get to Switzerland and even bought a classic car with an extra set of snow tyres to do so, but I got the passport forms and read the smaller book of forms which was instructions on how to take the photograph to go on the passport, and took one look at the complexity of the passport forms and realized I would have to also go to one of the big cities as part ofgetting a passport, and there was no way I could fill thr forms without too much stress, let alone the thought of going to London! (Used to be Newport and that would be stressful enough, but they closed Newport and so it was London... and London is like going abroad compared to here! I wouldn't have a clue! And now London is full of "No-Go" drive zones it is out of the question me ever being able to get a passport ever! So the want to try France and other places especially driving in Switzerland in the snow... I sold the lovely classic car and gave up hope! You are so brave to go through customs and go on a plane! If I go on a plane I want them to fly it close to the ground incase I have to jump out and get off! :D


Ooh... What I wanted to say is that Mum and I moved area when we moved house. It all seems lovely moving area... BUT one then misses where one was. I am not saying we will go back to where we were as there are reasons for relocating. BUT what I am saying is that for years I used to come up to this area for visits and loved it! But after moving, one does miss aspects of what one had. So putting that in perspective in your case, you may find if you moved to Japan, you may miss the USA and vice versa. So ideally an inbetween country with easy access to travel to both would be ideal? Not saying this is a plan. As for you, living in the USA and then spending long holidays in Japan whenever you can maybe the most perfect solution?


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RedDeathFlower13
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07 Dec 2023, 1:05 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
First thing I will say is you have been very brave to go abroad. I havenever been and for me the experience to try and get past customs would mean even if I spent thousands on the flight, I would turn around and walk out! I also would need to be near a window so if I panic and need air, I can open the window, but I don't like the idea of being hemmed in by people sitting next to me as claustrophobic. Never been on a plane.
I did fancy going by ferry to France, and drive to places from there to eventually get to Switzerland and even bought a classic car with an extra set of snow tyres to do so, but I got the passport forms and read the smaller book of forms which was instructions on how to take the photograph to go on the passport, and took one look at the complexity of the passport forms and realized I would have to also go to one of the big cities as part ofgetting a passport, and there was no way I could fill thr forms without too much stress, let alone the thought of going to London! (Used to be Newport and that would be stressful enough, but they closed Newport and so it was London... and London is like going abroad compared to here! I wouldn't have a clue! And now London is full of "No-Go" drive zones it is out of the question me ever being able to get a passport ever! So the want to try France and other places especially driving in Switzerland in the snow... I sold the lovely classic car and gave up hope! You are so brave to go through customs and go on a plane! If I go on a plane I want them to fly it close to the ground incase I have to jump out and get off! :D


Thank you! :D but honestly I would have not been able to go if not for my sister. She really stepped in to help me the entire time we were there because I have social anxiety too. Being on trains crowded with people plus the train stations and streets were so packed it brought out my awkwardness and phobias as an aspie...

But having my sister with me was such a big help. I wouldnt have trusted anybody else to fly to Japan with me. :heart:


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Mountain Goat
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07 Dec 2023, 2:35 pm

Good job you have your sister. :)


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CockneyRebel
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08 Dec 2023, 5:21 pm

Japan has a much more beautiful culture than North American countries and the people of Japan have manners and they're very polite. Japanese people also love their home country.


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RedDeathFlower13
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08 Dec 2023, 7:41 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
Japan has a much more beautiful culture than North American countries and the people of Japan have manners and they're very polite. Japanese people also love their home country.


I agree. I feel like I could live there if only I was rich. :lol:


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08 Dec 2023, 8:12 pm

I feel like Japan is a much easier nation to feel welcomed as a tourist than as an immigrant.

If one actually lives there the homogeneity of the culture might start to feel unwelcoming.

An example I've heard of recently was a woman who was mixed-race, but Japanese was her first language, asking a question in unaccented Japanese only to receive an answer in English, as though they're not Japanese. The lady in question barely even speaks English, just to underline the absurdity.

There's a lot that's great about Japanese culture, but just like everywhere else, there's some ugly aspects too.


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08 Dec 2023, 8:29 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
I feel like Japan is a much easier nation to feel welcomed as a tourist than as an immigrant.

If one actually lives there the homogeneity of the culture might start to feel unwelcoming.

An example I've heard of recently was a woman who was mixed-race, but Japanese was her first language, asking a question in unaccented Japanese only to receive an answer in English, as though they're not Japanese. The lady in question barely even speaks English, just to underline the absurdity.

There's a lot that's great about Japanese culture, but just like everywhere else, there's some ugly aspects too.


Yeah that's true, and I'm aware of that at least on some level. Another thing that would bother me about Japan is that I heard they have a rather poor way of treating the mentally ill in their country. Maybe that's partly why they have one of the highest suicide rates in the world?

Plus my sister who is a Marine Biologist and works in an Aquarium in the US told me some pretty awful things about the Aquariums in Japan and why she refused to visit one while we were there. Apparently they still kill dolphine mothers and take their babies to put in the facilities in Japan. She said that would go against her ethics as someone who works with marine life.

Also while drugs arent really an issue over there like they are here in the states, there is a LOT of heavy drinking that goes on over there.


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funeralxempire
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08 Dec 2023, 9:23 pm

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I feel like Japan is a much easier nation to feel welcomed as a tourist than as an immigrant.

If one actually lives there the homogeneity of the culture might start to feel unwelcoming.

An example I've heard of recently was a woman who was mixed-race, but Japanese was her first language, asking a question in unaccented Japanese only to receive an answer in English, as though they're not Japanese. The lady in question barely even speaks English, just to underline the absurdity.

There's a lot that's great about Japanese culture, but just like everywhere else, there's some ugly aspects too.


Yeah that's true, and I'm aware of that at least on some level. Another thing that would bother me about Japan is that I heard they have a rather poor way of treating the mentally ill in their country. Maybe that's partly why they have one of the highest suicide rates in the world?

Plus my sister who is a Marine Biologist and works in an Aquarium in the US told me some pretty awful things about the Aquariums in Japan and why she refused to visit one while we were there. Apparently they still kill dolphine mothers and take their babies to put in the facilities in Japan. She said that would go against her ethics as someone who works with marine life.

Also while drugs arent really an issue over there like they are here in the states, there is a LOT of heavy drinking that goes on over there.


I believe you're right that poor treatment/understanding of mental illness is a contributor to Japan's suicide rate. It wouldn't surprise me if less of a cultural taboo compared to some other places contributes as well (like the Christian world historically believed that meant someone went to hell.)

I have mixed feelings about cultures that still eat whales. On the one hand, I can understand why some northern indigenous people, Faeroe Islanders and Japanese might still 'harvest' them, but I won't eat octopodes or cetaceans because of their intelligence. That said, I do eat plenty of meat from terrible factory farms, so I feel poorly positioned to judge strongly. The morality of hunted vs. farmed meat always seemed hard to be certain of as well. Farmed animals have worse lives by some measures, and even the most humane slaughter possible still seems problematic. On the other hand wild animals have more freedom, but less security and when 'harvested' it's a lot more difficult to ensure it's humane... then again, we're not nearly as bad as bears or dogs.

Japan treats pot like it's a serious drug, even worse than the worst red state in the US. I think that by itself ensures I'm unlikely to visit. :oops:


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RedDeathFlower13
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09 Dec 2023, 4:22 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Japan treats pot like it's a serious drug, even worse than the worst red state in the US. I think that by itself ensures I'm unlikely to visit. :oops:


Yeah I can understand. Any drugs outside of tobacco or alcohol are still very taboo in Japan's puritanical culture. Even things that really arent that terrible like marijuana.

I avoid that stuff myself so it would not bother me to be raised in a society like that, but I don't judge people who do weed because just about everyone I know does it or has done it at some point in their lives.

Even the notorious Yakuza seem to avoid using drugs outside of smoking and drinking because of the taboos associated with it.


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09 Dec 2023, 5:00 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
I feel like Japan is a much easier nation to feel welcomed as a tourist than as an immigrant.
.



BINGO!

The Japanese are great hosts to visitors. But if you decide to live there...

A WP person who lived there even talked about how their country house suddenly became the center of a public demonstration by folks with bandanas and talking thru megaphones. Since it was all in Japanese the WP person had no idea what it was about until their neighbors later explained that demonstrators were angry about the fact that "foriegners live here" (ie that the WP person's family lived there).



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09 Dec 2023, 5:05 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I feel like Japan is a much easier nation to feel welcomed as a tourist than as an immigrant.
.



BINGO!

The Japanese are great hosts to visitors. But if you decide to live there...

A WP person who lived there even talked about how their country house suddenly became the center of a public demonstration by folks with bandanas and talking thru megaphones. Since it was all in Japanese the WP person had no idea what it was about until their neighbors later explained that demonstrators were angry about the fact that "foriegners live here" (ie that the WP person's family lived there).


I read somewhere that in the old days the Japanese literally thought that we foreigners were a type of Oni (a horned demon/ogre).

https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-topics/g02276/

Talk about "The White Devils" :twisted:

(sorry I just couldnt resist that :mrgreen: )


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Honey69
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09 Dec 2023, 5:40 pm

Have you seen the movie Lost in Translation?


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RedDeathFlower13
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09 Dec 2023, 5:46 pm

Honey69 wrote:
Have you seen the movie Lost in Translation?


Nope, what's it about?


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09 Dec 2023, 6:21 pm

I definitely think that European and Asian cultures tend to much more hospitable than Americans. Southern hospitality is a myth. Many of them are nice to your face but then talk s**t about you behind your back. There's a lot more of the community mentality in the South than the rest of the country (this actually goes for all southerners, not just white Baptists), and lots of rural southern communities can be pretty cruel to outsiders.

Japan is ahead of the US in so many ways. They actually spend money on developing the country instead of spending it all on the military. It's also a very safe country with a low crime rate and it lacks the gun culture that America has. You don't have to worry about sending your kid to school and possibly never seeing them again. It also has a more even distribution of wealth than America (or even most of the world). 90 percent of Japanese are considered middle-class.



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09 Dec 2023, 6:33 pm

NibiruMul wrote:
I definitely think that European and Asian cultures tend to much more hospitable than Americans. Southern hospitality is a myth. Many of them are nice to your face but then talk s**t about you behind your back. There's a lot more of the community mentality in the South than the rest of the country (this actually goes for all southerners, not just white Baptists), and lots of rural southern communities can be pretty cruel to outsiders.

Japan is ahead of the US in so many ways. They actually spend money on developing the country instead of spending it all on the military. It's also a very safe country with a low crime rate and it lacks the gun culture that America has. You don't have to worry about sending your kid to school and possibly never seeing them again. It also has a more even distribution of wealth than America (or even most of the world). 90 percent of Japanese are considered middle-class.



As someone who grew up in and lives in the Deep South I agree with you. Southern 'Hospitality' really IS nothing but a myth. I was even bragging to my mom while I was in Japan that the people in Nikko could teach the people in my hometown a thing or two about true hospitality.


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