Why I don't like the Wicca movement

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RedDeathFlower13
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23 Dec 2023, 12:41 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:

There are apparently 25,000-30,000 in Canada although it's hard to find good data on the subject.
https://globalnews.ca/news/1645977/wicc ... priestess/

It's possible that there's more in the US and Canada but people are less inclined to admit to it on surveys because they are concerned about stigma. For this reason, I think the numbers are conservative.

That makes sense. Witchcraft and anything regarding the occult aren't something most people talk openly about. Probably for good reason given all the negative stigma attached to it by people who don't understand these things.

Wiccans seem to do the most bragging about their practices and try to force it on the entire witch community but others like the people who practice Hoodoo or Kabbalah are less open about their practices.

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RedDeathFlower13
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23 Dec 2023, 1:03 pm

Speaking of other forms of witchcraft, I read on Wikipedia about a type of modern Chinese witchcraft known as "Gong Tau".

Quote:

In modern times, Gong Tau in Hokkien, Teochew in Cantonese or Jiang Tou in Mandarin is the term used when someone is suspected of having been attacked by black magic and is believed to be a fusion of poison skills which originated in Yunnan, China and witchcraft seen in South East Asia. It is used to either seek revenge, resolve relationship issues or even to assist with money problems.[22][23]

Sounds rather intriguing. I want to look more into this.

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RedDeathFlower13
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23 Dec 2023, 1:09 pm

https://taoist-sorcery.blogspot.com/201 ... a.html?m=1

Gong Tau... sounds like another keeper. :mrgreen:

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Mona Pereth
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23 Dec 2023, 3:57 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

What bothers me about Wicca is that it has now dominated the internet and the media to the point that everyone now believes that this is what witchcraft really is.

I haven't seen much of anything on the internet or media about Wicca or witchcraft. I'm sure it's on the internet If You Look For It, but I don't think it's dominating the internet.. and certainly not the media - where I can't recall ever hearing/seeing it mentioned. Satanism has been in the news a few times over the last few years due to a new satanic church starting after school programs for kids that faux news is having faux outrage over, but I can't recall anything about Wicca or witchcraft in the news ever.. not even around halloween time.

Anyways, never heard of the guy but he sounds like a jerk who was full of himself. He's dead and not a household name, so, whatever - he can't have made that large of impression on society.

I'm pretty sure RedDeathFlower13 is talking about relative dominance, compared to most other forms of neo-Paganism, occultism, and magic(k).

Although Wicca (a.k.a. neo-Pagan Witchcraft) rarely makes headlines, there are back-burner news stories about it every Halloween in many newspapers and other news sources, here in the U.S.A., and occasionally other times of the year besides Halloween too.

I just now googled "what percentage of the US population is Wiccan" and found these news stories, among others: NBC News, October 30, 2022; USA Today, October 28, 2021; Newsweek, November 18, 2018; Quartz, October 4, 2018; and Pulitzer Center, April 5, 2020.

Although it's far from huge, as of the year 2000, Wicca got to be a big enough category to be listed on the U.S. Census (see "Self-Described Religious Identification of Adult Population:
1990 to 2008" here).

And its growth, over the past 70 years or so, has been an ongoing source of worry to both evangelical Christians and Catholics.

Satanism gets more headlines, but attracts fewer people, as far as I can tell, although Satanism has been growing too.

Anyhow, to bring this post back on topic:

In my experience, there are also a lot of people who, like RedDeathFlower13, temporarily embrace Wicca or Wicca-based neo-Paganism, and then move on to other forms of occultism, magic(k), polytheism, or pantheism, that are more traditional or more historically-based.

(For a while back in the late 1980's and early 1990's, I was into a form of Wicca-based neo-Paganism myself.)

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RedDeathFlower13
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23 Dec 2023, 4:54 pm

All true, I'm now much more interested in traditional witchcraft and occult practices of all sorts.

Wicca lately feels like a bunch of New Age fluff in my honest opinion. Plus it mostly caters to teenagers who use it more as an excuse to be edgy than anything else.

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Mona Pereth
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23 Dec 2023, 5:23 pm

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

Plus it mostly caters to teenagers who use it more as an excuse to be edgy than anything else.

There are plenty of adult Wiccans too. Teenagers aren't the ones who fill out census forms.

Wicca does attract a lot of "teenagers who use it more as an excuse to be edgy than anything else," but that's not the same thing as "catering" primarily to said teenagers.

Your spiritual journey is your own. It is fine for you to move on from Wicca or Wicca-based neo-Paganism -- as many others have done, including myself. But I also feel that you are over-reacting against it, with exaggerated condemnations.

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23 Dec 2023, 5:31 pm

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

All true, I'm now much more interested in traditional witchcraft and occult practices of all sorts.

Wicca lately feels like a bunch of New Age fluff in my honest opinion.

It's one of the dominant flavours of New Age fluff, no?

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RedDeathFlower13
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23 Dec 2023, 5:32 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

Plus it mostly caters to teenagers who use it more as an excuse to be edgy than anything else.

There are plenty of adult Wiccans too. Teenagers aren't the ones who fill out census forms.

Your spiritual journey is your own. It is fine for you to move on from Wicca or Wicca-based neo-Paganism -- as many others have done, including myself. But I also feel that you are over-reacting against it, with exaggerated condemnations.

Or maybe I'm being just a little too honest about wicca and religion in general these days.

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RedDeathFlower13
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23 Dec 2023, 5:33 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

All true, I'm now much more interested in traditional witchcraft and occult practices of all sorts.

Wicca lately feels like a bunch of New Age fluff in my honest opinion.

It's one of the dominant flavours of New Age fluff, no?

Very much so.

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Mona Pereth
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23 Dec 2023, 5:37 pm

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

Or maybe I'm being just a little too honest about wicca and religion in general these days.

Honest or not, it's exaggerated.

For example, as I explained in my message above (which I was editing at the same time you wrote your reply):

Mona Pereth wrote:

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 23 Dec 2023, 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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23 Dec 2023, 5:42 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

It's one of the dominant flavours of New Age fluff, no?

Wicca and Wicca-based Paganism have many variants, some of which are "fluffier" than others. In my experience, longtime adherents tend to criticize newcomers and dabblers for being "fluff bunnies." I wouldn't dismiss the entire movement as "New Age fluff."

Also, although there is significant overlap between Wicca/Paganism and the New Age movement, most Wiccans/Pagans do not identify as "New Age."

Wiccans/Pagans commonly perceive the "New Age" movement as a bunch of rich folks attending expensive seminars on the latest alternative spirituality fad, led by the latest self-appointed guru, whereas Wiccan/Pagan groups typically (as far as I am aware) charge only enough money to cover the cost of room rent plus candles.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 23 Dec 2023, 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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23 Dec 2023, 5:46 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

It's one of the dominant flavours of New Age fluff, no?

I'm pretty familiar with neo-paganism and New Age movements. I've always found them interesting but impossible to reconcile with materialism.

Personally, I'm not opposed to dismissing it all as fluffy nonsense (religion, not just neo-pagan religions), but I've always found it interesting how some segments will dismiss other segments as nonsense while not being significantly different in overall beliefs themselves.

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23 Dec 2023, 5:47 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

It's one of the dominant flavours of New Age fluff, no?

I would dismiss it based on the fact that it's a bunch of horses**t cooked up by an attention-seeking liar who made everything up.

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funeralxempire
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23 Dec 2023, 5:49 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

Or maybe I'm being just a little too honest about wicca and religion in general these days.

Honest or not, it's exaggerated.

I'd agree with this. Being honest about holding an extreme opinion doesn't mean the opinion isn't flawed by being overly black and white.

That said, being personally invested makes it more likely one will hold more black and white views. It's easy for a non-believer to insist 8 flavours of essentially the same faith are the exact same, but for the believers those disagreements might be much more important.