Why do Europeans seem to hate Christianity?

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Nah, I definitely take your word on it - I've heard that a lot.



Well, hopefully Europe will wake up as well in terms of its own problems relating to what we're fighting right now. The Dutch, after Van Gogh had a message stuck to his chest with a knife, came around to getting the scope of things pretty quick. People who'll do that to a person for questioning their beliefs are something society can't have - I think you'd agree. I look at what happened in Lebanon and the slow take over and then genocide, I'm really afraid that Europe could become the next Beirut if people didn't shake their complaissancy regarding their own safety and enforcing their own liberty. On the bright side France has a much different head of country than they did with Chiraq and they're going in a much different direction it seems, that's a big sigh of relief.

I think my only real support for the republicans and GWB is just that, the people who are for the war for the most part in the US are so not because they hate muslims, that's not it at all. Its about the fact that you have certain people dead-set on killing or converting the whole world. Moderate or converted muslims criticize us on the fact that we're so politically correct that we refuse to acknowledge the reality of that - what it really becomes then when people turn their head and do the whole 'peace not war' chant seems to be 'I like my life as it is, I don't want to be bothered with change especially if it doesn't feel good, and to have 10 good years right now I'd rather do nothing and let the problems stack to the sealing rather than do something now and save the rest of my life'. Not to say that's all of it but I do know it takes a lot of people a lot more to get shaken out of hibernation on things and see what's really going on - Western Europe seems to be slowly coming around on that part, telling the extreme socialists to screw off, and I'm starting to actually have some faith that they aim to handle their business rather than being held hostage to their own standards vs. an abstract enemy that has no standards and keep eating from the hand that feeds them until they've built up enough numbers to where they feel the time is right to chop off that hand and execute the rest.

First of all, I don't necessarily support Israel, but, sadly, if a presidential candidate is a Christian, that's a point for me. I don't want our president to be a Muslim and have us end up like Europe, or be an atheist and have us end up like Russia, depite what a redneck ignorant hillbilly I must sound like.

I agree with you on many points. I love America, but I don't like it.

In fact, I went to England and I loved it, would even love to live in Europe.

And back to the topic, I've been mistreated by many "Christians"--and that's where the strength of the religion shows. If I, who despise many "Christians", can still adhere to the religion they claim to be a part of, then that's a cause worth dying for, in my opinion.

And the Japanese cornered the market on electronics too....

It seems a bit rich someone criticising Europe about their so-called hate of Christianity, and then going out about Europeans being arrogant when America didn't even want to help them in WW2 until 1943 because it wasn't fashionable for them. Could it be because America were still embarrassed over the War of Independence thing? The way us Aussies see it, the American attitude towards anyone, be it militarily, or financial, or anything else is a bit of a joke, because you arrogantly push your views about whatever down everyone's throats, and then expect the rest of the world to bow to your whims. Europeans don't 'hate' Christians, and even we Aussies don't hate them (I'm actually a pagan so I shouldn't be talking for the rest); what non-Americans and non-Christians don't like is the constant 'I am right and you are wrong' rant that some holier-than-thou pious groups are spouting. Pity everyone just can't see eye to eye, but because of the way we all are, that'll never happen, unfortunately.

Oh, and with the converting bit, they do it in such a back-handed way, laying guilt trips on people because they don't believe. I think that everyone should step back, see what a total f*ck-up everything has become and reassess where we are at before it is all too late. And the ones that REALLY need to do it, I'm afraid, the rabid evangelists.

Oh, just one thing on the 'cause worth dying for' thing, just because you've been persecuted by that group and still believe that way doesn't mean that they are a better group; it just means that it's a screwed up philosophy because you've become a slave to their ideals instead of having a mind of your own. Why die for something just because others do? When all comes down to it, it's a sheep-like mentality that fosters beliefs like that, and I'm glad I'm pagan if you need to go that far to prove a point.

Last edited by The_Chosen_One on 23 Aug 2007, 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

I don't think there is a problem with a candidate supporting anything, Christ/Israel/whatever. But if they all do there is a problem.

techstepgenr8tion talks about defending liberty through security etc... But it is just not like that ... if you continue fighting and building higher walls and removing your own rights in order to 'fight the enemy who is trying to kill you' ... where does it end ? How does it ever heal ? When do you win ? When will you ever go back to being a country of peace where people aren't afraid ?

It seems to me this path is a downward spiral. And of course nowadays the spiral is completely hijacked making an even more downward fall ... politicians/police/cia/military industry all love it, they love this fear of terror thing. They LOVE IT. When will it get better ? Perhaps if the US killed every single muslim then you could relax, but somehow like with the Commie Threat some decades ago it will not end and the fear will continue.

I am not an expert of history (please help me here) but how does this situation of fear every get better - do we need WWIII ? After WWII some improvements occurred in Europe, is this the only way for improvement ?

Fear begets fear.

Somehow have 2 world wars on our soil and etched in our culture and a very strong revolutionary and satirical set of ideas in Europe, we are more immune to this downward spiral of fear politics. You know when we make a cup of tea at work (in England) we say "[tea] helped us win the war" - a reference to the tea the British soldiers drunk in the trenches of WWI - the memories of it are etched deeply ... and they aren't Ra!Ra! memories, yee ha didn't we kick the commies ass, no the are memories of gried and stupidity and never again. Different to American memories of war I think.

And then talking about how the muslims want to convert the world etc... They are just people, men and women like you and me. America has been very 'active' in the middle east - many people have died, do you expect them not to be angry ? The level of dis-info broadcast in the US is very high.

Thank God for John Stewart !

Living in the Netherlands I couldn't resist responding. Could you please elaborate about the active persecution of Christians in Europe ? I've never heared of this. (not after the Spanish Inquisition that is, but then No one expects the Spanish Inquisition. )

Another thing I have to ask; which Christian fate are you talking about because there seem to be like a gazillion different ones...

On a side note. I was raised in a Roman Catholic way but have 'denounced' that specific fate on bases of what the church stands for now ('don't use condoms' springs to mind and of course the fact that the pope is 'god on earth') and in the past (the Spanish Inquisition, helping the Nazi's in WW2, not to mention the main reason the Roman Catholic church was started in the first place didn't help much there...). For me this does not mean that I'm not Christian anymore ! I just don't believe that God dictates me to experience my faith in a specific way in a specific place.....
(Note that both my parents are still Roman Catholic but we respect eachother's believes)

christians are supposed to be persecuted in thuh end times or whatever people call it, i think it's s'posed to be something like it was in the days of Rome. could get a lot worse!


<added> i agree with TomD, when you say europeans, what do you mean? if you had said americans i would have found it more credible. there seems to be a lot of antichristian feeling in the US. I think Europeans and Australians are more relaxed about it.

Sorry for sounding arrogant, only responding to that one guy's post.

Anyway, I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. Let's delete this thread.

Sorry for sounding arrogant, only responding to that one guy's post.

Anyway, I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. Let's delete this thread.

^^^ Warning: attention whore.

Why do Americans believe they're a higher form of life than Europeans?

We don't hate christians. A lot of Europeans are christians. They don't hate themselves. And I (atheist) don't hate them, and nor does any of my friends (all of them atheists), or anybody I know.

I wonder, where did you get the wisdom, what source seemed reliable enough so that you believe such nonsense?

My own paranoia and insecurity was my reliable source.

I don't think we're a higher form of life; we're mostly European descended and have the same genes, not that that necesarily matters at all.

Most Europeans don't hate Christianity. A lot of us just think it's stupid.

First question: if you're so patriotic, why are you using the name of a EUROPEAN mythical hero?

Second question: Are you kidding? You think we're in a golden age? Our kids are testing low in math and science, our health care sucks, our manufacturing is mostly done in OTHER countries, our constitution is being moth-eaten into tatters by the current administration, and our supposedly 'world-conquering' military is on the brink of collapse, bogged down in two piteous little sandy countries, at least one of which we had no valid excuse to invade in the first place. Oh, and we have spent BILLIONS of dollars in Iraq so far, and will probably lose the war anyway.

Because American mythology is downright boring.

In a lovable way?

I never said I was patriotic. I'd much rather live in Europe, to be honest, loved it when I went there. I'm just reacting to the condescension in the message I was responding to.

Lots of Americans are fascinated with European mythology, especially people who like to write fantasy.