funeralxempire
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Posts: 33,538
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15 Mar 2024, 1:08 pm
15 Mar 2024, 1:11 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
This thread reminds me of that song "what if God smoked cannabis...".
Whoa man, I feel like there's billions of people who all think they need me but like really they just need some of this kush.
Finally, a church I'd consider joining
15 Mar 2024, 1:33 pm
15 Mar 2024, 1:38 pm
15 Mar 2024, 1:40 pm
15 Mar 2024, 1:42 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
This thread reminds me of that song "what if God smoked cannabis...".
Whoa man, I feel like there's billions of people who all think they need me but like really they just need some of this kush.
15 Mar 2024, 1:50 pm
funeralxempire
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Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,538
Location: Right over your left shoulder
15 Mar 2024, 1:50 pm
15 Mar 2024, 2:00 pm
15 Mar 2024, 2:03 pm
15 Mar 2024, 2:08 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Jason Thayer wrote:
Aspiegaming wrote:
Probably a person who's just as fearful and bigoted like many of his fringe worshippers.
Why do people always judge by worst examples? Not everyone who worships God is like the fringe! The problem is they're shouting, but the good people are whispering. I'm a Christian, but I'm doing my best to ignore bigotry.
Unfortunately part of the trick fundamentalists pull-off is they convince everyone they're entitled to speak for that religion and the entire community associated with it. After all, as far as they're concerned they're the only real members of that faith.
But, it's not the fault of non-believers that this occurs. If Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc don't like being represented by their most extreme and outspoken examples, they need to be willing to speak out against the crazies within their midst. If they fail to, the religion in question will be defined by those who speak the loudest and most consistently.
People who aren't members of those faiths have no obligation to get invested in doing PR for those faiths. People who are do, at least if they don't want to let the extremists to speak for them.
Personally I think anyone who acts openly hostile towards anybody on the basis of their religious beliefs is behaving like a bigot too. Buuut that's just me.
If those beliefs are themselves bigoted, is having a negative opinion of people who hold those beliefs religious discrimination or just an unwillingness to make excuses for bigotry?
But further, don't you yourself judge many ideologies on the worst adherents of them? How is it bigotry to let Christians form a negative opinion of Christianity within someone's mind, but not when we replace Christians with Marxists, for example?
Touche. I guess I'm very judgemental with strong opinions of my own.
funeralxempire
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15 Mar 2024, 2:41 pm
RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
Touche. I guess I'm very judgemental with strong opinions of my own.
We all are.
I don't think pre-judging based on well-established and well-founded reputations is inherently wrong, but people should be willing to allow those prejudices to update themselves and gain nuance over time.
If a group is known to espouse a hostile view of some demographic, it will take time and effort for a subgroup of that group to either build their own reputation or to rehabilitate the entire group's reputation in that regard.
Until that happens, how are outsiders supposed to know a debate is ongoing or that change has occurred? Outsiders who that group might be hostile to aren't wrong to take measures to protect themselves, but ideally they should also be willing to notice individuals that don't conform with the group on that issue, or that the group (or a portion of it) is starting to shift on that issue. That said, some people take longer to become aware that a former enemy isn't an enemy anymore and often have valid excuses for why that might be.
15 Mar 2024, 5:10 pm
15 Mar 2024, 5:34 pm
15 Mar 2024, 6:47 pm
15 Mar 2024, 6:52 pm
Jason Thayer wrote:
RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
DoniiMann wrote:
I'm sorry for the nice Christians. I know a couple. They pray when they get together. They go to their church. But those aren't the things that they push on others. Instead, they spend most of their waking hours trying to find more ways to help others. They've led the local scouts for decades (in spite of ever diminishing parental support). They've run suicide support groups. They do soup deliveries during winter for elderly and disabled people in the community. I've helped them on the scouts and soup stuff. Seen them in action. They're getting older. He's continually getting injured, but when well enough, he just gets back to helping people. That's them and their religion in practice.
But here's the problem... They're not the ones causing problems.
Attacks on Gay marriage. Attacks on the Drags. Trans rights. Abortion. IVF. Attempts by political Christians to get institutionalized prayer into schools and free food for poor kids out of schools. Christian Nationalism. Seven Mountains heresy. Attempts to keep atheists and people of other religions off of local and regional political councils.
Basically bigotry, bullying, and curtailing of freedoms everywhere from school to the Capitol. All in the name of Christ.
And one doesn't need to go to the top to find it. It's on display in many towns at 10am this Sunday.
There are nice Pagans and atheists, and absolute ratbag versions as well. As a fundamentalist Pagan, I'll still take an active part in helping those Christians that I mentioned in my first paragraph, because I respect that I've rarely (if ever), seen individuals get the Beatitudes as genuinely right as those two do. No desire for money or recognition. Just heads down, sleeves up, helping others.
Why then complain about Christians? Because of their numbers. Because if those numbers were used to do what Jesus (who NEVER mentioned gays) said to do... if those numbers were more like the example of those two I mentioned above... there wouldn't be a problem.
But there are problems. Problems in schools and politics (national, state, regional...local), problems for the LGBTQI+ community, problems for women, their freedoms in reproductive choice (and real threats to their health/life), and on and on. And even though these "Christians" care less about Jesus than even I do, they cause great harm in his name.
They punch above their weight and they keep going like a toy bunny with a battery up it's butt.
Those are the people that we're upset with when we criticize Christians. My apologies if you've experienced our ire.
But my question is, why haven't the good Christians shut them down? Why is it that they can't criticize Christians from other churches, but criticism of gays and atheists is ok?
1 Corinthians 5:12
"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
As long as "Christians" attack those outside the churches and try to take over politics at all levels, be bigots against outsiders... we'll be vocal in our opposition. And if you noticed that this vocalization against Christians is everywhere, then consider that the "It's because they don't like Jesus" excuse that many put forward, is just BS. If our dislike is everywhere, maybe that just reflects the size of the "Christian" problem. It's everywhere, experienced by non-Christians every day.
So my apologies to the rest of you who are not a part of the problem. I wish there were more of you. And I wish you were as vocal in criticizing the errant "Christians" as they are in attacking everyone else. Until that problem is resolved, there will continue to be people who hold negative views about people who take on the Christian label. Just continue to be one of the good ones, and understand that we don't mean you when we turn the volume up.
But here's the problem... They're not the ones causing problems.
Attacks on Gay marriage. Attacks on the Drags. Trans rights. Abortion. IVF. Attempts by political Christians to get institutionalized prayer into schools and free food for poor kids out of schools. Christian Nationalism. Seven Mountains heresy. Attempts to keep atheists and people of other religions off of local and regional political councils.
Basically bigotry, bullying, and curtailing of freedoms everywhere from school to the Capitol. All in the name of Christ.
And one doesn't need to go to the top to find it. It's on display in many towns at 10am this Sunday.
There are nice Pagans and atheists, and absolute ratbag versions as well. As a fundamentalist Pagan, I'll still take an active part in helping those Christians that I mentioned in my first paragraph, because I respect that I've rarely (if ever), seen individuals get the Beatitudes as genuinely right as those two do. No desire for money or recognition. Just heads down, sleeves up, helping others.
Why then complain about Christians? Because of their numbers. Because if those numbers were used to do what Jesus (who NEVER mentioned gays) said to do... if those numbers were more like the example of those two I mentioned above... there wouldn't be a problem.
But there are problems. Problems in schools and politics (national, state, regional...local), problems for the LGBTQI+ community, problems for women, their freedoms in reproductive choice (and real threats to their health/life), and on and on. And even though these "Christians" care less about Jesus than even I do, they cause great harm in his name.
They punch above their weight and they keep going like a toy bunny with a battery up it's butt.
Those are the people that we're upset with when we criticize Christians. My apologies if you've experienced our ire.
But my question is, why haven't the good Christians shut them down? Why is it that they can't criticize Christians from other churches, but criticism of gays and atheists is ok?
1 Corinthians 5:12
"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
As long as "Christians" attack those outside the churches and try to take over politics at all levels, be bigots against outsiders... we'll be vocal in our opposition. And if you noticed that this vocalization against Christians is everywhere, then consider that the "It's because they don't like Jesus" excuse that many put forward, is just BS. If our dislike is everywhere, maybe that just reflects the size of the "Christian" problem. It's everywhere, experienced by non-Christians every day.
So my apologies to the rest of you who are not a part of the problem. I wish there were more of you. And I wish you were as vocal in criticizing the errant "Christians" as they are in attacking everyone else. Until that problem is resolved, there will continue to be people who hold negative views about people who take on the Christian label. Just continue to be one of the good ones, and understand that we don't mean you when we turn the volume up.
I agree with a lot of this, but keep in mind Christians are not the only mainstream religion out there guilty of weaponizing politics just for the sake of being cruel.
Hell even atheists are guilty of imposing their beliefs onto others through brutal means. Look at what the USSR did as the perfect example.
https://www.history.com/news/joseph-sta ... heism-ussr
Khmer Rouge too. The extreme left is just as oppressive as the extreme right.
Which is why we need a healthy democracy with strong checks and balances to keep either side from getting too powerful.
