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The American Dream Is Dead

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funeralxempire
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17 May 2024, 4:22 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
What exactly is the American Dream?
I've heard of it but never cared to investigate.

I assume it has something to do with money?


Basically the idea that anyone can 'make it' in America with a bit of hard work; which of course requires one to ignore all the hard working people in America who never get ahead through no fault of their own.


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IsabellaLinton
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17 May 2024, 4:42 pm

Oh, so basically ableism?


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17 May 2024, 4:46 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Oh, so basically ableism?


A combination of ableism, racism, sexism and corporate greed.


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17 May 2024, 4:50 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
What exactly is the American Dream?
I've heard of it but never cared to investigate.

I assume it has something to do with money?


Basically the idea that anyone can 'make it' in America with a bit of hard work; which of course requires one to ignore all the hard working people in America who never get ahead through no fault of their own.

My objective, capitalist, government-approved education actually has some good reasons for why those people can't get ahead:
1. They don't love freedom enough
2. They don't love Judeo-Christian God enough
3. They don't love the Constitution enough
4. They aren't actually working hard enough
5. They feel entitled to basic needs regardless of whether the all-knowing Market says
6. The government is to blame somehow
7. Foreigners are to blame somehow
8. Marxists are to blame somehow
9. They're immoral, so the Market and Judeo-Christian God have to punish them with poverty (I like to call this economic Calvinism)


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Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.
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funeralxempire
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17 May 2024, 4:53 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Oh, so basically ableism?


A combination of ableism, racism, sexism and corporate greed.


Not to mention wishful thinking. A lot of people who buy into the idea don't have evil motives, they're just deluded by wishful thinking.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


roronoa79
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17 May 2024, 4:54 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Oh, so basically ableism?


A combination of ableism, racism, sexism and corporate greed.

Okay, first of all, America is a special snowflake country where we are the least racist, least ableist, and least sexist country in the universe. And greed is good?? See, those aren't real problems--Marxists just try to convince people that those are problems because they're satanists or something who hate the West or something. If someone is claiming one of those things is a problem, then you need to treat them like a Marxist sleeper agent who is trying to destroy America by convincing people that America isn't the most specialestestest country in the history of the multiverse.


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I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
- Brian Wilson

Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.
- Thucydides

Conservatism discourages thought, discussion, consensus, empathy, and hope.


IsabellaLinton
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17 May 2024, 5:09 pm

It seems to me the hardest working people usually make the least money.


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17 May 2024, 7:47 pm

Just today, I was suspended from a group on FB for "political rhetoric" (I left the group voluntarily).

Another member posted a clip from the Today Show that showed how much the average millennial has saved for retirement vs. the average Baby Boomer.

I commented that saving up is nearly impossible for many people because of inflation, employers gutting benefits, contracting and outsourcing workers, while billionaire CEOs laugh all the way to the bank. The only "political" thing I mentioned is that many people can't get out of their Cold War-era mindsets ("everything I don't like is socialism!"). No mention of Democrats, Republicans, Trump, Biden, etc.

I got suspended, yet others who said it's because "you didn't work hard enough", or because "black people are lazy" didn't get suspended.


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funeralxempire
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17 May 2024, 7:53 pm

^ People who are too dumb to realize their statements are political tend to make those sorts of statements. Once you start making actual observations they assume you're smart enough to realize your observations are political. :nerdy:


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


IsabellaLinton
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17 May 2024, 7:57 pm

I worked a full-time career for almost 25 years, earning six figures for a lot of it.
I didn't save a single dollar.
I never even opened a savings account.

That's on account of home ownership and single parenting.
My mortgage isn't paid off either.


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17 May 2024, 8:25 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
^ People who are too dumb to realize their statements are political tend to make those sorts of statements. Once you start making actual observations they assume you're smart enough to realize your observations are political. :nerdy:


But how is my comment worse than the clearly racist remarks, and assumptions that everybody who can't save $1 million for retirement is somehow irresponsible made by the other members?


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17 May 2024, 9:03 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
What exactly is the American Dream?
The American Dream is the national ethos of the United States, that every person has the freedom and opportunity to succeed and attain a better life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream (among others)

That's all.  Full stop.

Some people think the American Dream includes anything and everything from owning your own home to being as wealthy as Warren Buffet.  Neither is necessarily the case.

"Every person has the freedom and opportunity to succeed and attain a better life" does not mean having your every need met by the State.  Neither does it mean that the State is responsible for keeping you happy, providing a you with a mate, or making you as wealthy as Warren Buffet -- these things are YOUR responsibility.  If you want them bad enough and are willing and able to work hard enough, they can be yours, too.  It took six years of military service for me to realize and accept these facts.

Other people struggle to even understand that bad choices made in the past adversely affect their state of living today..



funeralxempire
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17 May 2024, 9:16 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
^ People who are too dumb to realize their statements are political tend to make those sorts of statements. Once you start making actual observations they assume you're smart enough to realize your observations are political. :nerdy:


But how is my comment worse than the clearly racist remarks, and assumptions that everybody who can't save $1 million for retirement is somehow irresponsible made by the other members?


Your comment isn't worse. They just expect more because your IQ is above room temperature (in Fahrenheit, this insult feels much more brutal if you're used to metric).

There's no point trying to explain how the first two are also political to the sorts of people who would use them. It's like explaining what politics are to your dog, they can't process the abstract at all.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


IsabellaLinton
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17 May 2024, 9:26 pm

Fnord wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
What exactly is the American Dream?
The American Dream is the national ethos of the United States, that every person has the freedom and opportunity to succeed and attain a better life.

That's all.  Full stop.

Some people think the American Dream includes anything and everything from owning your own home to being as wealthy as Warren Buffet.  Neither is necessarily the case.

"Every person has the freedom and opportunity to succeed and attain a better life" does not mean having your every need met by the State.  Neither does it mean that the State is responsible for keeping you happy, providing a you with a mate, or making you as wealthy as Warren Buffet -- these things are YOUR responsibility.  If you want them bad enough and are willing and able to work hard enough, they can be yours, too.  It took six years of military service for me to realize and accept these facts.

Other people struggle to even understand that bad choices made in the past adversely affect their state of living today..



Such rhetoric about freedom.

Get back to me when all women have bodily autonomy and personhood under the law.


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funeralxempire
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17 May 2024, 9:36 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Fnord wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
What exactly is the American Dream?
The American Dream is the national ethos of the United States, that every person has the freedom and opportunity to succeed and attain a better life.

That's all.  Full stop.

Some people think the American Dream includes anything and everything from owning your own home to being as wealthy as Warren Buffet.  Neither is necessarily the case.

"Every person has the freedom and opportunity to succeed and attain a better life" does not mean having your every need met by the State.  Neither does it mean that the State is responsible for keeping you happy, providing a you with a mate, or making you as wealthy as Warren Buffet -- these things are YOUR responsibility.  If you want them bad enough and are willing and able to work hard enough, they can be yours, too.  It took six years of military service for me to realize and accept these facts.

Other people struggle to even understand that bad choices made in the past adversely affect their state of living today..



Such rhetoric about freedom.

Get back to me when all women have bodily autonomy and personhood under the law.



America: Let freedom reign.
Also America: No, not like that.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


Fnord
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17 May 2024, 9:36 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Get back to me when all women have bodily autonomy and personhood under the law.
That's a topic for another thread with the word "Patriarchy" in the title.

However, I will admit that the American Dream is being subverted by the Patriarchy.