Zionists Did TERRIBLE Things To Establish A Jewish State

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As an American, I would care. It wouldn’t make one bit of difference to me if events transpired closer to home. I’m highly critical of the US’s continued support of Israel and of many other actions the US has engaged in the past, including their “War on Terror.”

“Collateral damage” doesn’t seem like an accurate term for the reality of what’s occurring.

Drug cartels taking Americans hostage as some vague revenge for the drug war is not at all comparable to the struggle between Israel and Palestine. Drug cartels are criminal enterprises that exist to make money. A cartel taking hostages does so for money and money alone. Hamas killing Israeli citizens in a raid is more comparable to Native Americans killing American settlers in a raid. Palestinians and Native Americans are fighting against the conquest of their homeland by any means necessary. Israel pushed a wounded animal into a corner and is shocked it got bit.
Israel couldn't care any less about Palestinian civilian lives. Israel as an entity exists to dehumanize and brutalize ethnic Jews who are not religiously Jewish, black Jews, black Africans, and Arabs. Israel has no qualms with murdering Palestinian civilians. It just gets less attention in the press, and supporters of Israel are infamous for their inability to scratch beneath the surface of the pro-Israel, pro-America MSM. Hell, the fact that even part of the media is neutral in this conflict is treated by Zionists as tantamount to calling for a repeat of the Holocaust.
Zionism is Nationalism, and Nationalism is built on double-standards and self-pitying histrionics just like this.

Indeed, my countrymen are also utterly braindead when it comes to giving a damn about the long-term consequences of bombing whoever we want as much as we want because we can and we want to. It's that kind of short-term thinking in America and Israel that is why we are loathed the world over by those who do not kiss our a$$es out of political/diplomatic necessity.
"Commit war crimes against those who are weaker than you today, worry about the consequences tomorrow!" Oct 7 was exactly that kind of consequence. Israel is built on Palestinian genocide--they have no right to complain that those they murder en masse do not fight back fairly.
The aggressor (Israel, I have to clarify) would be suffering no war crimes or civilian casualties if they were not the aggressor.
"Wars begin when you please, but they do not end when you please."
It's like when Russia clutches its pearls when Ukraine launches attacks against Russian civilian targets. How horrible! Can you imagine? What would make them want to do something so monstrous!?

What is the endgame with being conciliatory to HAMAS war crimes? HAMAS will just see it as a sign of weakness, from the "river to the sea" they are already using hostages as leverage. 44% of Palestinians support them. People seem to have their morals all twisted.

There are people who think Che Guevara was a monster. I don't know about "widely recognized", but then others cherish his memory because of his swashbuckling style and fearlessly defiant attitude towards the US. Lenin was also widely admired. Statues of him have been erected in many world capitals.

Let's not forget that this thread is not about the war in Gaza. It's about the very existence of the State of Israel being some sort of crime. Probably the most extreme flavor of Anti-Zionism.

It features videos made by people with a very specific axe to grind. It's not about "speaking truth to power".

Glad to see I'm not the only one to notice an attempt to shift the goal posts.

!	Cornflake wrote:
	Some posts making personal attacks have been removed. It's understandable that this topic is likely to inflame tempers but they must be better controlled and not result in attacks on others.

The existence of the state of Israel is the basis of the current war in Gaza, which is itself a continuation of the colonial war started 8 decades ago as a necessary step in the establishment of the Jewish-supremacist state.

Israel, as Israel has stated over and over and OVER again, is a supremacist ethno state. It is a country of Jews, by Jews, and for Jews and nobody else. Call me crazy, but ethno-nationalist supremacist states are not okay just because it serves to benefit one of the ethnic or religious groups that one personally likes at the expense of an ethnic or religious group that one does not like. If you are not a religious Jew (ie: Arabs or ethnic Jews who converted away from Judaism), then by Israel's fundamental standards, you do not deserve the same rights as religious Jews.
This is not some extreme, disingenuous description of Israel. Israel very loudly, very publicly states that it exists for Jews and no one else. If you're in Israel and you're not Jewish, you can either accept being a second-class citizen or you can go somewhere else. This is a mainstream Zionist view.
Am I supposed to not think that kind of country is fundamentally wrong and immoral? Am I supposed to be okay with all that just because I love love love love Jews? Am I supposed to be okay with that given I am extremely proud to be part Jewish myself? Would I be objective if I was? I think not.

Inb4 I have to suffer the inane "Only Israel is held to this standard" argument--no it's not lol. White-ruled South Africa and Rhodesia (Israel's dear friends, RIP) were held to the same standard and they got what they deserved. The "Only Israel is held to this standard" argument must have really taken off once Zionists were finished publicly mourning the end of white rule over black Africans.
On top of that, Israel is still not the only country held to this standard. I, and many other anti-Zionists, hate all settler-colonial polities. Yes, that means you, America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, etc. The people who lived there first have more right to that land which you stole than you do. I have in my life met exactly zero Zionists calling for the return of land to Native American, First Nations, the Maori, Australian Aborigines, or non-Protestant Irishmen. It's not hard to see why.

How does discussing how Israel was formed amount to shifting the goal posts? Israel has always been the antagonist and documenting that reality is important when so many ignorants try to act like Israel is the victim.

Sadly their supporters are incapable of being honest these days.

Israel, where ass raping young men with sticks** is an acceptable practice:



** Or electric prods as I've posted evidence of before.

the original thread title is around what you allege "zionists" did to establish the state of Israel in 1948. Both you and twighlight swiftly jumped to the current Palestinian death toll (in order to change the subject) when I tried to discuss the motivation of up to 1-2 million jews who were escaping persecution following WWII. there was no internet and people at that time understood they were returning to the Jewish homeland. On arrival in Israel they became targets for Palestinian terrorists so (yes) they became victims twice over, at the hands of anti-semitism in Europe and then terrorism from their Arab neighbors. You may not like to hear their side of the story but trying to paint all Israelis as antagonists or accomplices to genocide makes as much sense as calling you an accomplice to native Canadian genocide.

It’s not in any way off-topic since the terrible things the Zionists did to establish a Jewish state never stopped. Taking the events surrounding 1948 or the current conflict in isolation wouldn’t show the full story/pattern of behavior although it appears to be a convenient take for those who are siding with Israel. It’s also worth noting that FXE started this thread and has some say in the direction that it goes.


This is leaving out so much relevant information it’s dishonest.


I’m pretty sure he wasn’t alive back then and so thus couldn’t have been involved in any capacity, so no, it doesn’t make as much sense. Further, it seems like some have informed opinions based on available facts while others have consistently demonstrated their biases by falling back on the same arguments that have been debunked over and over again.

This.
Zionists treat the status quo which Israel established for 80 years through conquest and genocide as just and reasonable. Because this is reasonable, any resistance to it is painted as extremist and anti-peace.


Again, this!
Zionists REALLY need to not equate the peaceful immigration of Jews to the Holy Land to the genocidal displacement of Palestinians which is the basis of the modern state of Israel.
You know what I, as an anti-Zionist, think would have been f---ing awesome? If after 1945 millions of Jews immigrated to the holy land and integrated themselves into society instead of murdering the people already living there, seizing their lands, making their own colonial-apartheid society, and cordoning Palestinians in tightly-controlled, intentionally impoverished bantustans.
Millions of Jews had already emigrated from one place or another (usually to avoid Christianity, debatably the most anti-semitic religion in world history) to the holy lands for centuries, especially starting in the 19th century. Are Zionists seriously deluded enough to think anti-Zionists oppose Jews moving to live there WITHOUT conquest and nationalism? In a way, yes. To a Zionist, Jews cannot be safe without resorting to the same genocidal nationalism they learned from the Paleface Goys.


This~~~
This would be like if it were 1880, and someone were acting like it's unreasonable to think Americans in 1880 are complicit in the still ongoing, violent, state-sponsored genocide of Native Americans. Some of those who participated in the destruction of Arab-Palestinian society are still alive and very much give their endorsement to the continuation of Palestinian genocide. Zionists have never stopped advocating this genocide, because Zionism is based on genocide. The Israeli citizen is complicit in genocide when they benefit from that genocide, elect leaders who support that genocide, and do nothing to reverse or stop that genocide.
Honestly, saying modern Canadians/Americans/Australians/whoever are complicit in the oppression of their native populations is still true now as it was when we were still murder-stealing their land. When's the last time you saw self-described moderate Americans call for the restoration of land rights to Native Americans? I can't even think of the last time I saw a liberal call for such a thing. If anything, those right-of-center tend to roll their eyes at such suggestions. Nothing complicit going on here!! Ignoring the problems of those less fortunate than you, because fixing those problems might inconvenience you is being complicit. It's a struggle to even get English people to agree to return land to the Irish --and the Irish are white Christians ffs!

https://apnews.com/article/israel-pales ... e8d6eaf0f8

Actually (and not for the first time) you both have changed the goal posts. If you read the thread topic it's about the "establishment" of he Jewish state. the global politics and mindset of people in the early 20th century from the Balfour declaration in the first half of the 20th century leading to the early zionist movement, the exit of the British colonial government and the erection of the state of Israel in 1948 was a completely different global environment and ignores the mindset of Jewish people who really were victims looking for a home. Jews in Europe experienced on of the greatest mass exterminations in human history and the psychological impact on survivors and PTSD they carried is impossible to ignore for the convenience of pivoting forward to the current conflict in Gaza.

FE would have us believe the old stereotype that jews were rubbing their hands together in anticipation, riding the wave of zionism to depopulate Israel of Palestinians. Zionism may have influenced the formation of the state of Israel but neither you or FE can pretend to know the motivation of Jewish refugees entering Israel after WWII which (in my view) completely negates any theory that they somehow were zionist fanatics. I also have pointed out that people in America pointing fingers at Israel are also beneficiaries of genocide but somehow the terrible things the founding fathers of Canada and the USA did can now be conveniently covered up as some historical appendix. If I was an Israeli I would simply ask pro-Palestinian Americans to practice what they preach and return their homes to the native people.

Israel's antagonistic actions towards the Palestinians have been an ongoing matter, it makes sense to discuss them as a steady and ongoing process.

Your comparisons and attempts to frame my arguments as antisemitism are dishonest at best.