Controversy over Jewish-Israili actress playing Virgin Mary

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16 Nov 2024, 12:02 am

Honey69 wrote:

There has also been some controversy about straight actors playing gay characters, when gay actors have been playing straight characters since forever. You're just acting.

An actor's personal background does affect how much and what kind of insight the actor has into the role. This is especially true for marginalized groups whose perspectives are not well-understood by mainstream folks.

Also, in the case of Palestinians in particular, mass media representation may well be a matter of life and death. Given the U.S.A.'s celebrity-obsessed culture, the casting of Palestinian actors in appropriate sympathetic roles might be just the thing that could spur many Americans to start seeing Palestinians as human and, therefore, start feeling at least a little bit bothered by the mass slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza.

Anyhow, regardless of how you personally feel about Biblical epics, there are lots of people who do watch them.

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16 Nov 2024, 12:59 am

Mona Pereth wrote:

Found some other recent news stories about this controversy:

- Controversy surrounds ‘Mary’ Netflix film with criticism of Palestinian 'erasure', The New Arab, 15 November, 2024: "A new Netflix film about Mary, mother of Jesus, has cast Israeli actors while ignoring Palestinians, sparking anger and calls for a boycott."
- Mary: Netflix faces backlash for casting Israeli actors in lead roles in upcoming biblical film, Middle East Eye, 14 November 2024: "Social media users have called for a Netflix boycott, with many accusing the platform of erasing the characters' Palestinian roots with the decision to cast Israelis."

This controversy appears to be part of a larger trend of concern about Palestinian 'erasure' in Western pop culture. The Middle East Eye page has a link to a story about another similar controversy here, plus a story about another related theme here.

One of the articles quoted a person from CODEPINK an American founded advocacy group. Otherwise the background of these social media critics remains unknown. I also noticed that so far there has been no criticism about Anthony Hopkins an actual European playing King Herald. So far are the key words. Let’s see if people actually start canceling their Netflix subscription, if Palestinian Christian or Christians of Palestinian background picketing Netflix Headquarters, if Palestinian Christian clergy and church leaders speak out.

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18 Nov 2024, 7:06 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

King Herod is a relatively minor character. I would expect people to be more concerned about the casting of the main characters and especially the Holy Family.

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19 Nov 2024, 5:32 am

Mona Pereth wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

King Herod is a relatively minor character. I would expect people to be more concerned about the casting of the main characters and especially the Holy Family.

True, but I would have thought that Anthony Hopkins probably more well known then all the other actors combined would attract attention.

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14 Dec 2024, 10:44 am

The movie appears to be causing controversy

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/why ... 12328.html

Quote:

...Religious scholars have had mixed reactions to “Mary,” as they debate perceived inaccuracies in the portrayal.

Christy Cobb, a assistant professor of Christianity in the department of religious studies at the University of Denver, says the field of Biblical studies has been alight with discussions about the film. She first heard about “Mary” through a post on Facebook — “a rant post,” she says.

“Biblical scholars are hearing about these movies, and then we get excited, and then when we watch it, we’re like, ‘Oh, this isn’t depicting Biblical stories as accurately or historical moments as accurately as we hope that they would be,’” she says...

It is just a movie, after all.

Quote:

...Filmmakers took creative liberties with Mary's depiction, Cobb says. Cobb appreciated that the film's Mary is more “fiery and rebellious” than commonly depicted. “I like that we’re depicting Mary as this full character with some agency, courage and her fears at the surface,” she says....

The Bible, as I recall, depicts Mary as rather a simpleton.

Quote:

...The movie places modern conservative family values onto the Holy Family in a way that is “not supported by the text” or by historical context, Cobb, who is working on a book about early Christian families, says....

That is precisely my objection to Biblical dress-up epics.

They are usually as trite and boring as Hell.

But, Anthony Hopkins is in it, so it might be worth a watch.

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14 Dec 2024, 1:08 pm

Honey69 wrote:

It is just a movie, after all.

Exactly. I approve of criticising films, but in most cases, including this one, I find the anger hard to understand. Religion can bring out the worst in people, which is something of a paradox.

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15 Dec 2024, 10:16 am

Mona Pereth wrote:

Possibly, but were talking about someone who lived over 2,000 years ago. Probably no modern human would have better insight into Mary than anyone else.

Mona Pereth wrote:

Also, in the case of Palestinians in particular, mass media representation may well be a matter of life and death. Given the U.S.A.'s celebrity-obsessed culture, the casting of Palestinian actors in appropriate sympathetic roles might be just the thing that could spur many Americans to start seeing Palestinians as human and, therefore, start feeling at least a little bit bothered by the mass slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza.

Mary was a Jewish Galilean. It would be good if more Americans were bothered by the mass slaughter in Gaza. There have been a few movies that featured Palestinians--I haven't watched them yet.

Mona Pereth wrote:

Anyhow, regardless of how you personally feel about Biblical epics, there are lots of people who do watch them.

Most of the people watching them are seriously looking forward to Jesus' imminent return on a Cloud of Glory. If a movie deviates from this slant, then this crowd will boycott it. If they protest enough, then other people might be curious enough to watch it.

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18 Dec 2024, 7:20 pm

Of course the controversy arises because the Virgin Mary comes from Judah, not Israel. Israel was the northern kingdom and Mary never set foot there. Judah was the southern kingdom. Home to Mary, Joseph and Jesus.

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18 Dec 2024, 7:28 pm

Honey69 wrote:

It is just a movie, after all.

Wait until they find out that Yul Brynner wasn't really Egyptian.

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18 Dec 2024, 10:34 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Nope. Galilee. You had to go through Samaria to get to Judea.

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26 Dec 2024, 12:36 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Honey69 wrote:

It is just a movie, after all.

Wait until they find out that Yul Brynner wasn't really Egyptian.

And it wasn't really God's voice in that film, not even a deity's, it was Charlton Heston's. The divine community must be in uproar. A mere bloody mortal playing one of them.

Anyway, all dead people in movies should be played by dead people.

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26 Dec 2024, 11:28 am

I watched the movie last night, for Christmas.

My reaction was "this is terrible! The script departs substantially from the Biblical and Historical accounts. And, really? Mary was a nun when she was a girl? Jews never had nuns. This movie must be for Catholics. But, Catholics think that Joseph was a very old, impotent widower, who had a large number of children from a previous marriage, when he married Mary. So, Catholics won't like it."

But, I have since come to learn that the movie was based on the Infancy Gospel of James: https://www.gospels.net/infancyjames

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_(2024_film)

Wikipedia wrote:

Development
Director D. J. Caruso, who is a practicing Catholic, was inspired to tell the story of Mary in a "human and relatable" way for audiences. He stated, "I wanted to inspire, particularly younger viewers, to say, 'Wow, Mary could be my friend. A lot of what she went through is contemporary and what's happening in the world today.'" Bishop David G. O'Connell, auxiliary bishop of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles, served as Caruso's spiritual advisor on the film. Pastor Joel Osteen served as an executive producer on the film.

Writing
Caruso referred to the Protoevangelium of James for source material on Mary, as well as her parents, Anne and Joachim.Timothy Michael Hayes wrote the original screenplay in 2020 after consulting with various Christian, Jewish, and Muslim religious leaders and scholars. The script underwent 74 drafts before finalization.

Casting
Around 75 women auditioned for the role of Mary before newcomer Noa Cohen was chosen. Caruso stated, "It was important to us that Mary, along with most of our primary cast, be selected from Israel to ensure authenticity." The decision to cast Israeli actors over Palestinian actors was later met with backlash on social media.

After 74 rewrites, you would think that they could come up with a script that was better than it was. Oscar Wilde's play Salome, also based on the Bible, was brilliant. So was The Last Temptation of Christ (both the book and the movie). Also, Jesus Christ Superstar.

The movie had too much gratuitous violence for my taste.

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26 Dec 2024, 11:53 am

^ Wow! The Gospel of James is pretty wacky. It claims that Mary was 16 years old when God impregnated her:

Gospel of James 12:3 wrote:

And she [Mary] spent three months with Elizabeth. And day by day, her womb grew larger, and Mary was afraid. She went to her house and hid herself from the people of Israel. She was sixteen years old when these mysteries happened to her.

They should’ve gotten a 16 year old actress to play Mary, preferably one with braces and pimples.

Chapters 18-20 are quite entertaining as well.

It was likely written around 150 CE.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_James

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26 Dec 2024, 1:18 pm

I wonder who this Salome was, who examined Mary's nether region, in the Gospel of James?

In the movie, it wasn't clear what was going on. It seemed that Salome was Herod the Great's wife in the movie, but she was his sister, and was involved in a lot of intrigue, to which the movie made fleeting references: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salome_I

Most Christians identify Salome, Herod the Great's granddaughter, as being responsible for John the Baptist's execution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salome

So, when a character named Salome appeared in the movie, I was wondering why she would appear at this point, when it would be another 30 years before John the Baptist lost his head.

Probably a lot of other viewers would have been similarly confused.

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26 Dec 2024, 1:44 pm

Another point to ponder: if Jews resented Herod's construction of the Temple in Jerusalem, as suggested in the movie, then why would modern Jews consider the Temple ruins to be so holy?

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26 Dec 2024, 3:14 pm

The Virgin Mary was Jewish, wasn't she? Logically, it would seem appropriate for a Jewish-Israeli actress to play the Virgin Mary.

That said, it is more important how they portray the Virgin Mary than that they might be Jewish.

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