Why We’re Still Fighting about Antisemitism Definitions

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Mona Pereth
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07 Jan 2026, 11:13 am

cyberdora wrote:
My personal opinion is that partitioning or categorising group-specific terms is seen (within that group) as elevating the level of importance or sense of outrage > incidents against other groups because "it's happening to us".

Of course groups of marginalized people are going to care more about what happens to their own group than about what happens to other groups -- because what happens to their own group is a greater threat to them, obviously.

Taking away group-specific vocabulary isn't going to change this. It seems to me that taking away group-specific vocabulary would only make it more inconvenient for groups to educate each other and negotiate alliances with each other.

Of course, group-specific vocabulary can be abused, and that is something that needs to be pointed out also.

cyberdora wrote:
Secondly groups who are targets (like Jews, Arabs, Asians or Gays) often attack each other. A good example is a social media complaints from Palestinians who said African Americans were not doing enough to speak up against Israel. Some resorted to racist language and African Americans said enough, let them fight their own battles.

Yes, that certainly happens. The question is how to resolve these fights.

I remember, back in the 1980's, quite a few Black women complaining about how "white feminism" was implicitly racist, whereas the Black civil rights movement was implicitly sexist. The way that these complaints finally got resolved, to some extent at least, was via the concept of "intersectionality." Basically, everyone agreed to recognize that the situation of Black women was somewhat different from both the situation of Black men and the situation of white women, and that both the feminist movement and the Black civil rights movement needed to take this into account.

Thus, as far as I can tell, the way that fights like this have gotten resolved, historically, has been by recognizing both the similarities AND the differences between the situations of different marginalized groups (and subgroups thereof), NOT by trying to sweep the differences under the rug.


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cyberdora
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07 Jan 2026, 10:20 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Thus, as far as I can tell, the way that fights like this have gotten resolved, historically, has been by recognizing both the similarities AND the differences between the situations of different marginalized groups (and subgroups thereof), NOT by trying to sweep the differences under the rug.


individual groups (and subgroups within these groups) will look after themselves and always will. I agree this is a fact of life.

But...the Australian government is trying to move in the right direction. Saying hurtful things or writing hurtful things is broadly speaking vilifying or engaging in hate speech. Physically attacking somebody because of their identity shouldn't matter if a person is hitting a Jewish person, disabled or Goth/emo. It's a hate crime.

where it should be extended is schools. Schools should have cameras everywhere monitoring. Any student caught engaging in bullying should be either immediately suspended, expelled or prosecuted once evidence is obtained. Same with workplaces. Cameras everywhere - no more workplace bullying or harassment.



YouBetchaYa
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07 Jan 2026, 11:16 pm

In USA, we've got to be allowed to speak about Israel, that government, without people confusing it with talking about the PEOPLE there and the diaspora. "Gotta keep em separated" :heart:

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Here We Go Again
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Look, I get it. We all want to fight antisemitism. Jewish communities face real threats—synagogue shootings, cemetery desecrations, harassment in schools and on the streets. The FBI documented nearly 2,000 antisemitic incidents in 2024 alone. This is serious. So why, after all these years, are we still stuck arguing about definitions?

New York City’s new Mayor Zohran Mamdani revoked every executive order issued after former Mayor Adams was indicted on federal bribery charges, including one adopting the IHRA definition of antisemitism on his first day in office. Predictably, all hell broke loose. Jewish organizations issued emergency statements. Israel’s Foreign Ministry called him an Islamist. Civil liberties groups applauded. And here I am, once again, explaining why codifying a contested definition into law was always a bad idea—not because antisemitism isn’t real, but because there isn’t consensus on a single definition, and the definition some groups keep trying to enshrine has serious problems.

In practical terms, the order meant city agencies would use IHRA as a framework to assess discrimination complaints, potentially affecting everything from workplace policies to contract decisions.

Here’s the thing about IHRA: it describes itself as “non-legally binding.” The organization that created it never intended for it to be enshrined in law. The core definition is fairly anodyne—antisemitism is “a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews”—but the controversy lies in its 11 “contemporary examples,” seven of which involve Israel. These include describing Israel’s founding as a “racist endeavor,” “applying double standards” to Israel, and “drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.”

Reasonable people disagree about whether these statements are antisemitic, offensive-but-protected-speech, or legitimate political commentary. Kenneth Stern, the original drafter of the IHRA definition, has testified to Congress that he never intended it to be codified into law and warned that doing so would suppress political speech rather than combat actual hatred. First Amendment defenders on both the right and the left agreed.

If you want proof that stemming criticism of Israel is the motive of IHRA’s key backers, look no further than how a Senate committee scuttled a federal bill codifying it for also noting that criticism of the Israeli government is not itself antisemitic.

The Antisemitism Awareness Act had sailed through the House with bipartisan support. An amendment seeking to protect legitimate criticism of Israeli policy passed 12-11 a Senate committee, with all Democrats and libertarian Republican Rand Paul voting yes.

The bill’s supporters were furious. Senator Bill Cassidy called the amendment “a poison pill.” That tells you everything. Even a modest marker against using an antisemitism definition to police legitimate criticism of Israel was enough for proponents to abandon what they’d called the most critical tool against antisemitism.

Senator Paul put it bluntly during the hearing: “Every example of antisemitism in that list is about words, not action. You can’t regulate speech.” The committee adjourned without voting on the bill, and it has gone nowhere since.

Mayor Mamdani’s sweeping action against the directives of an indicted former mayor has a sound rationale whether one supports it or not. And, credit where it’s due: Mamdani renewed the Mayor’s Office to Combat Antisemitism, continuing its strength and mandate established by Adams. Still, it drew immediate condemnation from seven major New York Jewish organizations. At a moment of genuine anxiety, their concerns are understandable. But their framing of this move as an affront to Jewish safety only heightens that anxiety.

Every decent American is struggling with why unprecedented policy tools, resources and public resolve to reverse the unrelenting rise of antisemitic hate doesn’t seem to be enough. . That’s a good reason for all of us to stop squandering precious energy and resources dividing and polarizing communities over a definition that was never meant to be law, while actual antisemites are more emboldened than ever. .

There are better ways to fight antisemitism. Fund security for vulnerable institutions. Empower and train law enforcement and other officials to prevent and respond to hate crimes against Jews and all targets of hate. Support education on antisemitism and bias. Enforce civil rights laws against actual discrimination and harassment.

Organizations should look to concrete measures like the Antisemitism Response and Prevention Act —which expands and resources material action and infrastructure for sustained efforts to prevent, investigate, and punish antisemitic acts —without the constitutional landmines.

Antisemitism is a serious danger to Jews and to the social fabric and we’re not going to defeat it with definitions or by arguing over them.



Mona Pereth
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08 Jan 2026, 12:58 am

cyberdora wrote:
individual groups (and subgroups within these groups) will look after themselves and always will. I agree this is a fact of life.

But...the Australian government is trying to move in the right direction. Saying hurtful things or writing hurtful things is broadly speaking vilifying or engaging in hate speech. Physically attacking somebody because of their identity shouldn't matter if a person is hitting a Jewish person, disabled or Goth/emo. It's a hate crime.

On the legal front, I agree with you. A hate crime is a hate crime regardless of which category or categories a person falls into.

You and I might have some disagreements on political strategy for marginalized groups, and on the role of language in political movements for social justice, but I think we agree on how hate crimes should be defined for legal purposes.

cyberdora wrote:
where it should be extended is schools. Schools should have cameras everywhere monitoring. Any student caught engaging in bullying should be either immediately suspended, expelled or prosecuted once evidence is obtained.

Not sure I agree that they should be "immediately suspended, expelled or prosecuted" on the first offense, but at the very least they should be given a stern warning, and then suspended, expelled, or prosecuted for any subsequent offenses.

cyberdora wrote:
Same with workplaces. Cameras everywhere - no more workplace bullying or harassment.

Yes, if a business has cameras for security purposes (which many businesses do), then they should be used to enforce polices against bullying and harassment too.


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cyberdora
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08 Jan 2026, 2:08 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Not sure I agree that they should be "immediately suspended, expelled or prosecuted" on the first offense, but at the very least they should be given a stern warning, and then suspended, expelled, or prosecuted for any subsequent offenses.

Cameras are for evidence, a lot of bullies know if it comes down to allegations it's word of mouth and they will be let off with a warning and then wreak vengeance on their targeted victim.



Mona Pereth
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08 Jan 2026, 12:55 pm

cyberdora wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Not sure I agree that they should be "immediately suspended, expelled or prosecuted" on the first offense, but at the very least they should be given a stern warning, and then suspended, expelled, or prosecuted for any subsequent offenses.

Cameras are for evidence, a lot of bullies know if it comes down to allegations it's word of mouth and they will be let off with a warning and then wreak vengeance on their targeted victim.

Agreed that cameras are for evidence.

The reason why I would urge just a (very stern) warning on the first offense is not for lack of evidence, but because we are dealing with children.

I would add that not only the child should be warned, but also the child's parents, who should be shown the video evidence.


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funeralxempire
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12 Jan 2026, 4:33 pm

BillyTree wrote:
The IHRA definition of antisemitism blurs the line by including criticism of Israel.


Zionists need that conflation in order to dismiss criticism of Zionism or the Zionist state as motivated by bigotry instead of basic human decency.


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