Are you tired of morons...

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RedHanrahan wrote:

All Right...RedHanrahan... Stop spreading hate!! ! You shame your countrymen with your extremist, hateful attitude, and I don't see any New Zealanders telling you to stop.

I have seen those threads started by narrow minded, loudmouthed minority



I challange you to find my inflammatory threads! I live in the US, I like my right to bear arms, I like my right to free speech, therefore I seem to fit all the criteria you set down for worthy of hate. People you have urged in previous threads to "blow their brains out". I am offended that you would put me in the same catagory as those that go around starting fights and breeding hate. I am not worthy of your hate! I have done nothing to you. I wish no ill toward any religious or ethnic group. I believe extremism in any form, from any group, will ultimately lead to atrocities.

The threads you start (like this one), some of the comments you have made on other threads, all seem to start and breed hate.

People like you are exactly what is wrong with America today. You are separated yourself only geographically.

Ok, 'wrongthinking' you are truly a legend - go bro'! you just prove my point, lol.

1/ Whether I 'shame ' my countrymen [no women? - 'compatriots' perhaps? we did give them the vote before anyone else] is between me and them, however a kind of 'fed up with the USA' vibe hangs over most conversations, although initially you get support due to your nations media lies, once truth gets around it soon dissipates, usually most people do however separate the individual from the state, something that is often forgotten. Perhaps they are silent because they agree, perhaps not? ask them.

2/ At no point did I say ALL Americans, however yes I did urge Chuchulain and his ilk to remove themselves from the human throng as they are a danger to all humanity, and I am a firm believer that the annual wicker man is a sadly suppressed social device [rather than yet another shallow American pop culture consumerism].

3/ How in hell can I be whats wrong with America? there are 300 million citizens in line for that honour ahead of me, and for the record my country has invaded no-one, never called for global hate against anyone, my comments were about a certain kind of American, and I did qualify this, however if you wish to go off on one like the classic loud mouthed ill-informed yank go for it, so far the poll is swaying in favour of a general displeasure at the dominance of moron threads.

Now, given that you don't support all this American imperialism and monotheistic hate mongering, why not go and shout them down in the dozens of threads started solely for that purpose or would that be 'unpatriotic'?

As for the comments along the lines of 'live with it' fair enough.
I will choose not to as I find it sad, pathetic and a waste of a lot of time sifting through all the long arguments that are based on religion or race or politics, looking for the exchanges of ideas along the same, I can not hear the quiet voices for all the shouting and I just want to yell 'shut the f**k up!' sometimes.

In closing, back to America.
If any of you are uncomfortable with the response some of the worlds citizens make to your nations actions and you are unable to handle it, then clean up your mess, we won't react badly and we will all get along just fine, however, looking at the shite some of you shout and the shite some of you find important I don't see that happening soon, lol, peace j

Well no you didn't say "All Americans" but you implied it. You spend a lot of vehemence and violent spittle on explaining that just because we don't protest loudly enough to suit you that we all must be of the same mind. Not true, and you are smart enough to know that. I have to say that I was certainly under the impression that you were categorizing me with Chuchulain and his ilk and our obligation to remove ourselves from the human throng even though I said I didn't agree with him. It's a little hard not to get defensive when someone who A. doesn't know you and B. has a full mad on and so isn't listening to you; is telling you that your best contribution to mankind would be to blow your own brains out.



Of course I am uncomfortable with this kind of vehemence; and I have been trying to "clean up (our) mess". But apparently it isn't enough to suit you. As a matter of fact the only solution you gave me was to commit suicide. So, since I am unwilling to make the ultimate sacrifice for the gratification of "the rest of the world" (or at least your own), what else would you suggest? I live here, like it or not, and I can fight with these militant-right-wing-idiots until they threaten me (they have), write to my congressmen until my fingers hurt (I have), Vote (I do), and explain that we are making arrogant, consumer driven mistakes that are hurting people all over the world until I lose friends over my opinion (which has happened too.) Have you ever been here? If you have, have you spent much time talking to people in this country about how we are viewed by the rest of the world? Have you done it in a way that isn't just accusatory and inflammatory? You won't change hearts and minds by calling names and making absolutist statements. As a matter of fact, I see your point and have said as much and you just lump me with the rest because I don't completely reject my own culture. I was willing to listen but you lumped me into the the-fascist-idiot-them-category and alienated me by proposing that I deserve violence; based on what? You were and are indulging in the same sort of self-righteous-all-inclusive-violence-obsessed-hate-mongering that you claim is so against what you believe in. You couldn't seem to separate that I was offended by your demeanor, not your sentiments about my country. You lost it, and the people that may have supported you or at least agreed with a lot of your points think you're unstable and so question the validity of your point of view. If you are right about how indicative your attitude is of the rest of the world, there is nothing I can do but defend myself against people who have already made their decision about me no matter what I say. Have you stopped to think that in many respects, individually speaking we are products of our culture and bound by it as well in this country and in your own? I'll ask again, since you know so much about my country, what should I do to change this imperialistic machine? I already know that you aren't inclined to do me any favors, and I have to say that I am currently doubting your capacity for introspection, or at least your capacity for admitting when your actions have caused more problems then they have solved; but would you please just consider that your own self righteous rage is precisely the attitude that will make an ultimate conflict inevitable; if indeed the majority of the rest of the world feels the way that you do that is. You have illustrated rather well to me that you don't actually listen to me because I am an American, (and I don't completely agree with you), but mostly because I'm an American. You need someone to hate, someone to blame, you aren't trying to solve anything.




I do! I track them down and oppose them when I find them, but I don't go on and out and out hunt for them anymore because talking to them is a lot like talking to you. If you say "Well, you have a point, but what about this..," or "maybe we could come up with a solution if you stopped calling me names" they put their fingers in their ears, and start drumming their heels on the floor and just yell louder. Just because I'm not stringing expletives or threatening violence doesn't mean I don't try hard enough. All you do if you generalize and scream at people the way you have been is make enemies. You just draw the proverbial "us" vs. "them" line in the dirt. You aren't going to change anything but put those quieter voices that may actually help you more firmly on the line against you out of pure self preservation. Every time some one says I see your point about Imperialism but there is no cause to tell me I need to blow my brains out you say "Thanks for proving my point...", but you are alienating the people who agree with you and not really making a point about Imperialism and a consumer driven nation full of shallow individualists. The only point you are making is "I'm going to hate you because you are an American no matter what."

id be very lonely if i got tired of morons!

(present company excluded, of course)

((jk haha))

- very well, forgive me for choosing the "traditional" instead of the "gender-neutral" term, yours is better. (by the way: my home state (Wyoming) was the first in the U.S. to give women the right to vote.

pick one:



You have just lumped "ALL Americans" (it's 300 million citizens) into the category of hate mongers ahead of you. Your post is about "moronic americans" as though they are sononomous.

My whole point is that you on one hand condemn all the pointless violence and hate mongering, then promote it against the U.S. as a whole. I repeat "You have separated yourself only geographically."

I guess the reason I address your comments as opposed to "Chuchulain and his ilk" is that by contrast, you seem intelligent. On occasion you are even reasonable (i.e. -when you aren't talking to an American).
Chuchulain is a hate monger, and starts threads just to cause trouble. Condemning him/her just feeds him/her and makes him/her post more inflammatory remarks. The few of his/her moronic threads I have tried to read through just prove to me he/she will staunchly ignore reason, and any post against his/hers that is reasonable. (Please forgive me for all the "his/her" I can't get to the profile while writing this and don't know Chuchulain's gender at the moment.) Most of the posts I have seen following Chuchulain's have been rebuking him/her. He/She is the same kind of extremist, hate-monger responsible for countless atrocities word-wide.

Your posts DO seem to lump ALL Americans into his category (weather you realize it or not), and that I will fight. That is the same cart-blanc extremist hate-mongering that Chuchulain posts.

Lumping all americans into that catagory only feeds the US vs THEM mentality and breeds animosity. This only spurs on the unreasonable people to further drastic extremes, causing the hot tempered, hate-mongers to lash out (within our own country) at the reasonable minded people around them... the only ones who are likely to raise a voice against all the things you hate about "Americans".

Please, in your next post, address this:
1) You are breading hate against americans. Breading hate is wrong . Hate begets hate, violence begets violence. You only perpetuate those things about "Americans" you hate by lumping together the responsible parties with those who would oppose them.
2) Why do you hate me when I have done nothing against you?
3) Have you ever been to the U.S. to see the real people instead of the policy makers?

RedHanrahan wrote:

This is not entirely true. In 1893, New Zealand became the first nation in the world to grant women the right to vote.

23 years earlier:
In 1869 Wyoming was founded and gave women the right to vote.
Women served on a jury in Wyoming (Laramie in 1870). Wyoming had the first female court bailiff (Mary Atkinson, Laramie, in 1870) and the first female justice of the peace in the country (Esther Hobart Morris, South Pass City, in 1870).

all courtesy of Wikipedia.

@ wrongthinking...

Firstly thank you for teaching me something new [I bet that made you feel good] - looks like some real progressives made it out into the prairie.

Ok answers, first, could you show me where I said I hate you?
Until you responded to this thread I don't recall engaging with you specifically at any point anywhere else, I will presume you are trying to be clever, shame me in some way, whatever. I don't know you and therefore have no opinion of you other than any presumptions you yourself assume I am making. If my disgust at the conduct of your oligarchs or extreme right implied to you that I hate YOU then you are mistaken. I appreciate that every morning at school you were/are made to pledge allegiance to a flag and the state it represents but that is I assume not taken on board by all.
I actually have a deep love of many 'American' things, however this in and of itself would be a lame argument to try and explain away my 'anti-Americanism', so too would the 'some of my friends are American' line [also true].

My 'hate mongering'? well that is a strong one, with the exception of 'encouraging Cuchulain and his ilk etc...' I don't think I am particularly hateful, perhaps you are just really very damn ashamed and uncomfortable when someone else points out those things?

Have I ever been to the US? No, I don't feel however that my extensive contact with Americans and bombardment by the media culture are insufficient to allow me an opinion.

Now what I find interesting is the difference between us in relationship to national identity.
I love Aotearoa, I love the landscape and the people, however when someone points out our cultural flaws or where we are going wrong i just shrug and carry on, but [and this may be a national flaw] when I see the school bully wailing on the refugee kid, or the Brown kid, or the Asian kid, or the any damn weak target you care to name kid, well, I get the urge to wade on in and kick some ass, then when I calm down I kind of figure it's time all those odd kids band together to stop the bully.
Now if you can get it into your head that the universe doesn't revolve around you, you will understand that I never addressed you personally, if you include yourself in the subgroup 'moron American' that is a pity, perhaps you should address your self esteem issues or something, I aren't a therapist so I can't help, sorry.
As for spreading hate, if refusing to stand by you when the world turns against you automatically makes me one of 'them' fine, I am one of them, hell I sure as hell aren't one of you.

Also notice I didn't rise to the new thread that opened with a wee goad from Cuchulain in spite of it being personal - the guy is a dick and I now know not to his enter his threads, I wonder will I get a similar courtesy from those who now know what to expect?

Lastly if I am not allowed to refer to obnoxious or stupid Americans as Americans what should I call them, I was after all addressing what I perceive as a problem, in terms I was comfortable with, could you please send me a list of objectionable words/terms of reference so that I can restrict my freedom of speech accordingly.

@ pheonixiis...

Keep it up, the revolution will fail without you!
I talked to my counselor about your concerns and he said 'it was ok, you are full of s**t'

again fair points all - especially vandire - however I still choose to hold that it is tiresome noise, peace j

I find that morons are quickly tired of me.

RedHanrahan has also said:



For someone who has expressed so much animosity for The Cheap Shot... Nice one. You condemn us for not doing enough and when someone tells you what they have done you offer contempt. When I ask you what else I can do? ...No answer, nothing at all. Hmmm... "Tiresome noise" indeed.



Did you really?!

]

Ask yourself- would it not be offensive if it were a British moron "posting their racist, monotheistic rubbish all over the internet as if it was their exclusive domain?" An ignorant moron is an ignorant moron reguardless of nationality. (no, I do not include you in this catagory)

Thank you Who_Am_I:

Someone raises a reasonble opinion and you shoot it down.


And as far as:

Look closer and you will see many dissenting voices that are american. Your preconceived notions about americans stops you from realizing when they do.

However the sarcasm was not lost when you said:

You find an american trying to do what you judge us for not doing and you shoot them down. Way to go! This just proves that you don't want us to correct each other, you want us all to be worthy of contempt.

In one sentence you deny that you lump all Americans into the same imperialistic, loudmouthed, moron category, and in the other you do it again. I quoted you doing so in my last post, a point which you conveniently ignored.
I grant you, you never have said "I hate you", but your implications are clear. Perhaps your bigotry is not apparent to you and only comes out when you're not looking at it. No one is going to see the phrase "stupid american" as a qualifier seperating them from other americans, they/we will see it as stereotyping.

This is my last response to your thread. (I know you can't let me have the last word, heck, I will probably read your response.) You can perceive victory if you wish, or you can take an objective look at yourself and what you write. Address someone's actions as a person, not as a country. (Holding someone responsible for what they did not do is just beating up the innocent.) Maybe you can do some good everywhere, instead of just doing good AT americans.

LOL @ wrongthinking and pheonixiis.

Well you two crack me up, you see the world in a sad dualistic winners/losers way, you are unable to separate yourselves from your state and be objective about things and as soon as someone makes an observation or critique you get all indignant, how very droll.
It reminds me of stories from an old sailor who had worked merchant routes around Europe in the thirties, he told me about Germans who would get all uptight and defensive whenever the glorious fatherland was critiqued, lol, you two are not dissimilar, you roll out all this 'nothing to do with me' crap while enjoying the benefits, you blow my statements into absolutist BS in order to justify your own indignance and then start clucking about like chooks crying for my head, psycho analyzing me based on a handful of comments and blaming me for the situation.
The very fact that you cannot see this as an exchange but rather some critical debate that requires winners and losers proves my very point [to my own satisfaction at least]. I asked a global English language community an open question, I specified with reasonable detail the personalities I was sick of, if you feel loyalty to that? - cool. If you feel included in the moron category? - cool, whatever, if my country behaved as yours does and my compatriots behaved like redneck dickheads and spouted hateful shite for the sheer fun of an argument, I would hang my head in shame, I would look for another home and I would tell the dick to shut the f**k up, flat, simple, no questions asked.

Check the 'are Maori's about to TAKE over New Zealand?' thread in News and current events, there you will see I argue against one of my compatriots, I take a tone and posture to his poll and posting appropriate to his own, both of you would have received much more civilised responses from me if you hadn't gone off on one like fuckwits, lol.
Initially I had an open mind towards both of you as I had no reason to have even noticed your existence, now I dislike the pair of you, you are pathetic! Project all you want on to me, but I think all the psychobable and BS are your s**t not mine, now I do dislike you both, not hate, I have way more to worry about than you two or contrary to your own self obsessed delusions as a nation America, no, you just both managed to fall into one of the wrong groupings.
Now I have a very low view of both of you, not that would bother either of you as you have demonised me rather than just accept how I feel or how I think, something neither of you have any knowledge of, just assumption and presumption. I can see no difference between you or the rest of the 'nothing to do with me' brigade, I would love to know what you actually think of someone like Chavez or Castro, I would love to know what you actually know of Iran and it's people/culture or any number of things, however as it is probably easy to guess that it will be some patronising magnanimous paternalistic tolerance at best, why bother.

During WWII loads of Yanks were shown hospitality in my country, not because we had to but because we chose to, you know the most overwhelming legacy that was left? Resentment, you came and wandered around our home telling us how f*****g miserable and backward it was, something we still get from way too many 'we paid good money for this so now I'm allowed to be rude' American tourists, you know what a common joke was?
'Whats up with these Yanks then?, they are over paid, over sexed and over here'.
Now I imagine that this is the point where you remind me of how you saved our asses and we would be speaking Japanese without you etc, etc, etc.. but perhaps I am wrong, I don't think it would be wise to be that presumptuous??
Before the war you were seen as 'fast and flash', afterwards you had fallen into 'loud mouthed yanks', and now-a-days you are seen by way too many people as a confused and possibly psychotic nation full of ignorant and paranoid greedies, people who walk past suffering sneering 'get a job', a nation divided by race and money, where once you were envied now you would be rapidly becoming pitied, but for the very real threat you pose as a nation to the life and liberty of the entire planet.
Now sure you may wish to separate yourselves from that, but as long as you are enjoying the perks and remaining loyal, you have to accept your share of the responsibility, there are no 'I was only following orders/earning a living' excuses, if you disagree that much cool, take the criticism from outside as support, lol, but no, deep down you pledged allegiance every morning and like good little Nazi's you cannot stand to hear your nation or compatriots derided however much you purport to disagree, there are no medals for being an upstart, there are no medals for doing what serves the greater good [that is just being a decent civilised human being] - don't expect any from me.

As to 'if a Brit was going off on one?' I would critique, if his nation showed itself to dominate as a source of that crap?, I would ask the same question, 'anyone had enough of these pommie biggot pricks?'
If I spoke Arabic and was visiting middle eastern forums I would actually speak up for America where there was a lack of reason or fact motivating hate speech and s**t stirring.
I live in a country full of migrants and I enjoy the diversity immensely, in fact the only people I am intolerant of is the intolerant, and on that note, peace 'intolerant hate mongering anti-American[christ?] j

PS - you never fix nothing by shooting it full of holes, lol.

You're a fine one to talk, characterizing "dualistic winners/losers way" as "sad."

We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us. And my first act as self-appointed stabmaster is to slay everyone in this thread.

Me first.

err...? Whats a "Chook" and I don't remember crying for your head. Psycho analyzing you based on a few statements was wrong and if I dipped into that I'm sorry.



Fine I'll answer your question. Yes I'm tired of it. I'm not quite sure what your point was other than blowing steam at Cuchulain for his moronic post. How does mistaking an exchange for a critical debate prove your point about Americans? That we are self-centered? Sure. Me too. But I don't know that you have alot of room to criticize anyone for that character flaw. As far as arguing just to argue? Well you might have me there because I see conflict as an opportunity to learn more. I was hoping to get you past your tirade long enough to give me some feed back. I asked a question out of genuine frustration with what options are available here to the dissenting voice. What else can I do? You didn't answer. Not once. I wasn't asking for a medal, I was asking for ideas. I was hoping you would see I'm not completely complacent long enough to get some feed back on what to do, Where to go, Where to get more info,...? The only response from you I got was a small minded one liner. It is hard to get past your habit of using nasty names, and all inclusive bigoted statements long enough to be objective. Your vehemence is threatening if indeed that many people feel that way about us. It's hard not to bristle.




As far as Chavez and Castro my only source for regular info is the Media (spin), so I discount it. Iran same thing; sort of, there is some literature out there, but it is hard to find some in this country that will focus on the positive aspects of any middle-eastern culture right now. Most of it has its focus on veiling and the aspects that are at odds with our own culture. Anecdotes of suffering there-in. What I do know is "cradle of civilization, pre-B.C. history," but most of that would probably fall into your patronizing magnanimous paternalistic tolerance category. If you know of some books or other resources please tell me.



Yeah a little presumptuous. I don't expect any one to give me credit for what my grand fathers did.



You have a point. So how do I take responsibility other then shoot myself, live in abject poverty and give all my blood-earned-prosperity to (?) What I do do is apparently only worthy of contempt, I asked you what else and you wouldn't answer. We should take responsibility, we need to change it. So...? As far as a decent civilized human being, the only options you have given us so far have been barbaric, when I ask you for more answers you ignore it completely. It really looks like the only option will accept from an American is A. Suicide or B. accept you are a worthless human being by virtue of where you live and accept the consequences. I am willing to listen and you won't give me anything. On your web-page you talk about helping your fellow man, I asked for help, for ideas, for information and got nothing but bigotry. I'm asking again here, and I suspect because you don't like me, I won't get anything. Passing up an opportunity to change one mind that might be willing to change because you can't get past your "cultural distaste" is not decent or civilized.



Follow your own advice.

@ MrMark

Could you please elaborate?

@ Quatermass

Stabbing, much stabbing, with the jetting and the spurting and the puddles and the ooze.

@ pheonixiis

I didn't start this thread to help America but to research the vibe of the forum, I have my answer to my question

Main feeling - general apathy/disinterest, second feeling - that this is the same shite here too.
I guess the morality of the freedom of speech needs some discussing? I am happy to moderate myself as you may or may not have noticed, I just don't see the need for the kind of rubbish I was decrying and personally have no problem with 'colourful' but harmless language so the odd shite, f**k or c**t bothers me a lot less than some of the IDEAS that are being promoted, tolerated and defended, how some people thought it was fun to go and mess with peoples more considered discussions just because they love a scrap?

I don't have any responsibility to offer you solutions to your problems, they are in fact your concern, I am content that with the breadth of the Pacific between us that it would be unreasonable to expect it of me or to tolerate interference, I certainly feel the reverse is true, this is my land and these are our concerns, that is your land and those are yours.
'Exporting' is however a different kettle of fish, the USA is the exporter of a lot of misery in exchange for the best of the world, only to waste it in a lolly scramble of decadence that you don't even seem to enjoy [I guess thats why I chose decadence]
I the right to ask a question that may prove sensitive to some, if it does well, I offer the same general response I have gotten from this thread which is 'get over it', I don't have to read them and now I know who's a dick and who isn't, cool. But this doesn't stop the jamming of threads by and for other people when they get disagreed with, this doesn't stop the racism being propagated or the harassment or any of the crap that goes on in online forums.
My sister, oldest and very independent, came home one hot summers afternoon after playing at a house down the road, I guess she was 7 or 8. She comes in and goes up to my mum and she is like 'mum, guess what?'
'Whats that?' says my mum.
'Well you know how X has a brother? says sis'
'hummmnnn?' says my mum.
'Well he was playing in the paddle pool with two of his friends and when me and X wanted to get in the boys all said - 'NO GIRLS, if you get in we will pee in the pool', well we looked at each other then we said we were going to get in anyway cause they won't pee in the pool'.
'hummmnnn?' says my mum.
'Well Y he just sits there and you can see his yellow pee spreading around where h'e sitting and then Z stands up, gets out his pee-pee and starts to pee in the pool, then when he's finished he sits down again in the pee.'
'you didn't get in then did you?' says my mum.
'I'm not silly mum, only an idiot would WANT to sit in a pool of their own pee, thats why you change the babies nappy'.
My sister grew up to be an awesome woman, raised an intelligent and resourceful daughter, I wonder what kind of plonkers those boys grew up to be with an attitude like that? I can almost see them sitting there smiling, I remember their faces, stupid little pricks each and every one of them, lol.

It's a bummer you are so put out, imagine how so many of us feel out here in the world when we see the words typed up by 'some' of your compatriots. It's a bummer you are too stupid to leave the place where you are so unhappy and uncomfortable, but my friend none of this is my problem, that is all your s**t!
I would welcome you here except you would contribute some cultural assumptions that may impact badly on my society, we are cut a little differently down under and Australia may suit you better, except they have a bit of s**t to sort themselves having some unfinished business with Koori [I would love to think one day I can take these boong feet back to the red earth] and are way to keen on raping Papatuanuku for the quick buck and WASP suppression of all else.
How do you feel for Canada? they sort of have clean hands, about as clean as ours. I notice you guys like each other like NZ and Australia - there is a bit of distrust and some name calling, bit of mocking of accents and such but generally you get along? surely they need good people? whatever, if you feel real stink then suicide is an option but it's pretty permanent, so you know, maybe theres nothing else and you want to hang on in there?

Conflict as a chance to learn? well true, but so too is creative play, listening, mimicking, oh, there are so many [I live with a teacher] why always conflict?
I notice this in your media, all entertainment requires only one point of interest - CONFLICT- there is a lacking of subtlety and it seems to be a national obsession, all the time the bombard of greed, fear, violence and the constant constant, obsessive competitiveness, sorry bro' not my style - eh?
Get over it dude, I already am, I know what to expect and am learning how completely different cultures 'cores' can be, it's great, not the most efficient way, to many barracudas cruising for an argument, but hey, I'll just spend more time sifting through the shite to find the diamond.


Glossary of definitions

Chook - a chicken
hummmnn? - a sound mums make when they are 'part listening' at the sink and want you to continue, if the tone is right the are also comprehending [significantly different to the males which shows he isn't actually listening at all].
Papatuanuku - mother earth
Koori - Australian Aborigional [literally - 'the people']
Boong - derogatory term for the above.
WASP - white anglo-saxon protestant [sometimes derogatory]

Now I'm going to go and stab myself to death with the barbie tongs... have fun, enjoy your weekends
peace j [Worlds least favourite 'hatemongering' kiwi toe-rag, lol]

Last edited by RedHanrahan on 19 Oct 2007, 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.