08 Jan 2008, 8:36 pm
08 Jan 2008, 8:38 pm
08 Jan 2008, 9:11 pm
08 Jan 2008, 9:32 pm
IpsoRandomo wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Ethics, morality, truth and value judgements depend entirely on the people who are making them, at the specific point in time that they are making them. Things that individuals or society consider 'wrong' usually change over time, only to come back later in a changed form. Life is in constant flux.
You're conflating ethical relativism with epistemological relativism.
Maybe. Relativism is the idea that some element or aspect of experience or culture is relative to, i.e., dependent on, some other element or aspect. This happens to varying degrees in different areas. I don't believe that life can fully be understood in terms of rigid 'absolutes'. There are few true 'fundamentals' to life. There are far more 'fundamentalists'
people who proceed to tell the rest of the world that they are right and that everyone else is wrong.
Life is complex, contridictory, paradoxical and strange (and so are we!). We are all people with our own subjective perception. These different perceptions of the world act and react with each other all the time. Whenever anyone takes a rigid position on any topic, they are setting themselves up for a fall, meaning that they are bound to contradict themselves (repeatedly). This in itself doesn't nesscessarily negate their position but it can make it harder to learn from different approaches.
One of the 'rubs' or paradoxes that we face is that we all (to varying degrees) bound by our special perspectives on life and our 'points of view'. There is no view from 'nowhere'. The thing is that we can only ever see so much. This is both a pain and a joy. A pain because it can lead to a lot of hurt, conflict and misunderstanding. A joy because we always have new things to discover.
Last edited by autodidact on 08 Jan 2008, 10:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
08 Jan 2008, 9:44 pm
IpsoRandomo wrote:
Actually, I'd like you to define what you claim to mean by using the word "objective." See, I honestly don't see what the word is supposed to mean, if anything, in regards to the ways they use it. Can value judgments be objective? They seem to be subjective by default.
After all, values cannot exist apart from those who value. So how can your values apply to me if I don't accept them?
(BTW, are you an "Ayn Randian"?)
After all, values cannot exist apart from those who value. So how can your values apply to me if I don't accept them?
(BTW, are you an "Ayn Randian"?)
Very true Ipso. Yes he is an "Ayn Randian". We both had a disagreement awhile ago because I refuse to believe her theses. IMO she was full of s**t.
Here's the whole thread: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt33433.html
08 Jan 2008, 10:12 pm
autodidact wrote:
IpsoRandomo wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Ethics, morality, truth and value judgements depend entirely on the people who are making them, at the specific point in time that they are making them. Things that individuals or society consider 'wrong' usually change over time, only to come back later in a changed form. Life is in constant flux.
You're conflating ethical relativism with epistemological relativism.
Maybe. Relativism is the idea that some element or aspect of experience or culture is relative to, i.e., dependent on, some other element or aspect. This happens to varying degrees in different areas. I don't believe that life can fully be understood in terms of rigid 'absolutes'. There are few true 'fundamentals' to life. There are far more 'fundamentalists'
people who proceed to tell the rest of the world that they are right and that everyone else is wrong.Life is complex, contridictory, paradoxical and strange (and so are we!). We are all people with our own subjective perception. These different perceptions of the world act and react with each other all the time. Whenever anyone takes a rigid position on any topic, they are setting themselves up for a fall, meaning that they are bound to contradict themselves (repeatedly). This in itself doesn't nesscessarily negate their position but it can make it harder to learn from different approaches.
One of the 'rubs' or paradoxes that we face is that we all (to varying degrees) bound by our special perspectives on life and our 'points of view'. There is no view from 'nowhere'. The thing is that we can only ever see so much. This is both a pain and a joy. A pain because it can lead to a lot of hurt, conflict and misunderstanding. A joy because we always have new things to discover.
Postmodern nonsense.
At best, the only thing postmodern philosophers have demonstrated is the obvious fact that different individuals have different perceptions of truth. They still haven't shown how this conclusion makes all claims equally true.
(BTW, just by being an epistemological relativist, you contradict yourself.)
Last edited by IpsoRandomo on 08 Jan 2008, 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
08 Jan 2008, 10:21 pm
08 Jan 2008, 10:27 pm
autodidact wrote:
IpsoRandomo wrote:
autodidact wrote:
IpsoRandomo wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Ethics, morality, truth and value judgements depend entirely on the people who are making them, at the specific point in time that they are making them. Things that individuals or society consider 'wrong' usually change over time, only to come back later in a changed form. Life is in constant flux.
You're conflating ethical relativism with epistemological relativism.
Maybe. Relativism is the idea that some element or aspect of experience or culture is relative to, i.e., dependent on, some other element or aspect. This happens to varying degrees in different areas. I don't believe that life can fully be understood in terms of rigid 'absolutes'. There are few true 'fundamentals' to life. There are far more 'fundamentalists'
people who proceed to tell the rest of the world that they are right and that everyone else is wrong.Life is complex, contridictory, paradoxical and strange (and so are we!). We are all people with our own subjective perception. These different perceptions of the world act and react with each other all the time. Whenever anyone takes a rigid position on any topic, they are setting themselves up for a fall, meaning that they are bound to contradict themselves (repeatedly). This in itself doesn't nesscessarily negate their position but it can make it harder to learn from different approaches.
One of the 'rubs' or paradoxes that we face is that we all (to varying degrees) bound by our special perspectives on life and our 'points of view'. There is no view from 'nowhere'. The thing is that we can only ever see so much. This is both a pain and a joy. A pain because it can lead to a lot of hurt, conflict and misunderstanding. A joy because we always have new things to discover.
Postmodern nonsense.
At best, the only thing postmodern philosophers have shown is that different individuals have different perceptions of truth. They still haven't shown how this conclusion makes all claims equally true.
Can anybody!!?? - Nothing is 'equally true' so long as we are all coming from a DIFFERENT perspective. Its just my POV vs yours vs other peoples..
As for 'Postmodern nonsense'
I do not subscribe to ANY ONE particular philosophy. This is MY belief formed form MANY different things.Opinions are like a***holes. Everybody's got one!
Wrong. There may be objective truths. We just might not know what they are.
08 Jan 2008, 10:31 pm
08 Jan 2008, 10:36 pm
IpsoRandomo wrote:
"As for 'Postmodern nonsense' Rolling Eyes I do not subscribe to ANY ONE particular philosophy. This is MY belief formed form MANY different things."
Word games.
Belief, philosophy, creed, idealogy, whatever. You know very well what I'm questioning, regardless of what that thing is called.
Word games.
Belief, philosophy, creed, idealogy, whatever. You know very well what I'm questioning, regardless of what that thing is called.
Boll**ks! - you were the one who tried to lump me with the postmodernists and dismiss, not question what I was saying. How exactly is what I said 'Postmodern nonsense'? - you don't say!
Last edited by autodidact on 08 Jan 2008, 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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