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Hector
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12 Mar 2008, 10:16 pm

Hillary Clinton is not a socialist.



Hector
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12 Mar 2008, 10:28 pm

Anyway, reading up on their political beliefs and policy platforms I don't see much of a difference between Clinton and Obama. At least not as much as what I had seen between McCain, Huckabee and Paul. The Republican Press would have a much harder time trying to attack Obama, though, the way I imagine it. One exception is that Obama took a hard-line stance on handgun ownership that made him the NRA's most hated candidate. They wouldn't have backed Hillary either, though, so that's not much of a setback.



OregonBecky
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12 Mar 2008, 11:17 pm

Psychlone wrote:
OregonBecky wrote:
Wrong Planet is a community of sorts. Does that make it socialistic?

If forming communities were so unnatural for humans, why are there so many churches?


What you are describing are voluntary communities where people have joined voluntarily. Socialism is about FORCING you into the collective against your will.


No argument about that.


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srriv345
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13 Mar 2008, 12:13 am

Psychlone wrote:
Maybe it would be like a 3rd Bush administration, but some people would rather vote for the devil they know rather than the devil we don't know. We know what to expect from Bush, and we survived 8 years of him, so we can probably save an administration of someone like him as well.


Yes, I suppose we've survived 7+ years of Bush in the literal sense. But we've also gotten into the biggest war since Vietnam for no good reason. Not exactly a sterling record. I found it pretty unbelievable that Bush was re-elected, and I'll be equally dismayed if his cheerleader McCain gets elected.



aaronrey
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13 Mar 2008, 4:41 am

Quote:
Abortion:
Obama supports abortion rights.


i do too

Quote:
Energy/Environment:
Obama would create a cap-and-trade system to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, taking revenues generated from the program to help those negatively impacted by the limits. He would also raise fuel efficiency standards for cars. Obama would establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard that would require all transportation fuels to contain 5 percent less carbon by 2015 and 10 percent less carbon by 2020. He believes the plan would spur investment in renewable fuels and help reduce annual greenhouse gas emissions.


not a bad thing. i'd rather promote mass rapid transit to make people leave their cars at home more but we do need to decrease our reliance on oil.

Quote:
Immigration:
Obama says it is vital to bring out of the shadows the 12 million illegal immigrants currently living in the U.S. by implementing a system through which illegals could earn citizenship by paying a fine, learning English, and waiting their turn behind legal immigrants. Obama says the U.S. needs a better employment verification system and more serious employer sanctions for those who hire illegal immigrants. He also voted for the 2006 Kennedy-McCain immigration reform bill and is in favor of a border fence.


im not familiar with the kennedy immigration bill but i agree with the previous 2 sentences.

Quote:
Iraq:
Obama favors a time line for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq. He introduced a bill that would cap the number of troops in Iraq at 130,000, the number on the ground before the recent surge. Obama was not in the Senate in 2002, but was opposed to the Iraq war from the start.


i do oppose the iraq war but now that the US is in iraq, they cant afford to leave because it will turn iraq into a terrorist haven. something else must be done to improve the situation.

Quote:
Taxes
Obama would let expire tax cuts for households earning more than $250,000. He acknowledges that additional revenue might be needed to achieve his health care goals, but says a large amount of money can be saved within the existing system


not familiar with taxes so cant comment



Othila
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14 Mar 2008, 6:01 am

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So Hillary, by advocating socialism, is of a similar mentality as Hitler or Stalin. In their way of thinking individuals don't matter, and you're just a number, or a statistic.
[/quote]

Politics is all about statistics. Im surprised that you think you are only just a number with a socialist candidate and not in all government systems. Hence the word system. And Hitler, Stalin, and every other politician is right in saying that individuals don't matter because an individual doesn't elect a politician a group does. So it is kind of naive of you to have this viewpoint along with Hillary being a socialist. I suppose your next post will claim that Obama is a muslim.



Psychlone
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14 Mar 2008, 11:14 am

Othila wrote:
Politics is all about statistics. Im surprised that you think you are only just a number with a socialist candidate and not in all government systems. Hence the word system. And Hitler, Stalin, and every other politician is right in saying that individuals don't matter because an individual doesn't elect a politician a group does. So it is kind of naive of you to have this viewpoint along with Hillary being a socialist. I suppose your next post will claim that Obama is a muslim.


I don't care if Obama is a muslim or isn't a muslim. Why are you implying I would make that claim? I really don't care at all.

But I am against Hillary and her pro-socialist rhetoric and voting record. Here are a few quotes for your consideration. One of them is by Hillary and the rest are not, but they are nearly identical:

"We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." [Hillary Clinton, 1993]

"The main plank in the National Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute for them the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood." [Adolph Hitler, quoted in Hitler, A Study in Tyranny, by Alan Bullock (Harper Collins, NY)]

"All our lives we fought against exalting the individual, against the elevation of the single person, and long ago we were over and done with the business of a hero, and here it comes up again: the glorification of one personality. This is not good at all." [Vladimir Lenin, as quoted in Not by Politics Alone]

The one thing socialists all have in common is they want to destroy the individual, and Hillary is one of them.



BaalChatzaf
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14 Mar 2008, 1:40 pm

[quote="Hector"]Hillary Clinton is not a socialist.[/quote]

That is true. She is a Statist, one who thinks government should have a major role in the lives of individual citizens. It is the form of fascism which has flourished in the United States since the end of the Civil War.

There are virtually no major political figures who are NOT Statist.

Ba'al Chatzaf


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