Zoroasterianism and Bahai faiths

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Teoka
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16 Apr 2008, 5:06 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Quote:

Right now I'm looking to be my own shephard instead of being someone else's sheep.

Professing religion is not the same as being a sheep!

Atheists make for very good sheep, as well. Anyone who continually advertizes how nonconformist they are is just masking their profound fear & insecuriy.

I would no more want to be my own shepherd than I would want to be my own dentist.

Yeah, it is. If you're in a religion, you're expected to follow it without question. Hell, a common phrase I've heard is "The Lord is my Shepherd, there is nothing I shall want."

Atheists do not conform to one thing or another. All they believe is that there is no god. Some are spiritual, others are very skeptical. There's a lot more variety in atheists than in members of a religion.

Saying that atheists are fearful, insecure, and calling themselves one to rebel is highly conceited of you. One would think an aspie would be less judgmental, not to mention a religious one

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nominalist
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20 Apr 2008, 2:56 pm

I am also a member of the Bahá'í Faith. In the Bahá'í sacred narrative, Zoroastrianism is a prophetic religion, and Zoroaster is a Prophet.

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laustcawz
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14 Sep 2012, 3:25 pm

I was raised almost exclusively by a single mother who was born into a Jewish family,
but converted to The Bahai Faith when I was still a toddler.
It's a long story, but the ultimate impression I get from this religion
is it's just an intense, empty, ongoing ultimate exercise
in junctist/passive/aggressive behaviors/attitudes/beliefs.

I'm familiar (but not as much) with other religions,
but they all seem pretty cult-ish, phony, preachy, junctist &/or insincere
or, at best, presumptuous.
The Bahai Faith, I think, is more preoccupied
with the whole "peace & love" crap than some other religions,
so it would certainly qualify as one of the most passive/aggressive.
My mother & various other family members & their friends
are/have been the same way.

"One Planet, One People, Please"
(you can do a search for it on youtube)
is a song I was urged/demanded to join in & sing with
more times than I care to remember.

Sounds a little too much like "Kum-Ba-Ya", doesn't it?
Bahais are very big on "unity" which, from my experience,
is a roundabout way to try to discourage any spontaneity,
imagination, independent thought
or any sort of unpopular or unestablished opinion,
not just regarding religion, but regarding life in general.
Maybe this faith is more contemporary than others
or tries to be more "inclusive", but it's still a "faith".

Of all the religions, Zoroatrianism is one of those I know the least about,
so, aside from it being a religion (& therefore suspect), I have no comment.

As for junctism, this is a word I coined to describe
what seems to be the opposite of autism.
Autism is from the Greek root "auto", meaning "self".
In contrast, junctism is from the Greek root "junct", meaning "join"
(as in "junction" & "juncture").

naturalplastic
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14 Sep 2012, 6:41 pm

pandabear wrote:

Letum wrote:

For a long time Judaism was a religion of bull worship with more than one god. It was not until 539BCE that the Iseralites came into contact with Zoroastrianism and formed their ideas of a single god.

What happened in 539? Is that when Moses destroyed the "graven image" of the calf?

Moses was WAY back in 1300 BC, or thereabouts.

Probably he is talking about the Babylonian Captivity ( by the waters of babylon they shed tears because they remembered Zion) when the Isrealites were forced to leave zion when the babylonians conquered them and took them off as captives to their country-which was in the sixth centurey BC. The Isrealites then encountered foriegn beliefs and folktales and (to keep their idenity) were forced to streamline their own beliefs (there is evidence that Yaweh had always had a wife named Ashurah who suddenly got left on the cutting room floor in that time). Much of the Old Testament seems to have been codiefied by the Isrealites in exile then.

ruveyn
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14 Sep 2012, 6:47 pm

Letum wrote:

Yup, Zoroastrianism has had a huge influence on Judaism, Christianity and Islam before these newer religions where fully formed. It also has some links with Hinduism, which was formed by the same Indo-Aryan group of people.
It's recorded history only goes back to the 5th century BCE, but there is plenty of evidence to put it as far back as the 10th/9th. The origin of Zoroastrianism lies in around 3000BCE when the Indo-Aryan people moved from Northern India/Southern Russia in to Persia.
Much of Zoroastrianism was born from the Cult of Mithras, a god of bull-worship and sacrifice. Mithras is also the old Persian word for "contract". The contract, or covenant with god would later become an important Jewish and christian idea. Mithras is also the first example of a god that stands for an abstract idea (the justice of a contract) as opposed to the more human gods on Mount Olympus.
It is also the first religion to talk about the soul (urvany).
The founder of the religion was Zarathustra. He was born in Tehran or Kazakhstan and preached to the Northwest of Kabul where he converted the local ruler and Zoroastrianism became the official religion. He spoke of a "one true god" which we are free to follow or abandon. This was another new idea that Judaism took. The choice of following god or not also gave rise to the idea of judgement after death, heaven and hell.
Zarathustra referred to him self as the "savior" which helped shape ideas about the soul and life after death and laid the seeds for the idea of Messiah.

For a long time Judaism was a religion of bull worship with more than one god. It was not until 539BCE that the Iseralites came into contact with Zoroastrianism and formed their ideas of a single god.

Pharasaic Judaism (the kind of Judaism that exists today) come to completion during the Exile in Babylon (Persia). There is little doubt that Persian religious ideas had a major role in the formation of the Judaism we have today.

ruveyn

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15 Sep 2012, 8:14 pm

laustcawz wrote:

Bahais are very big on "unity" which, from my experience, is a roundabout way to try to discourage any spontaneity, imagination, independent thought or any sort of unpopular or unestablished opinion, not just regarding religion, but regarding life in general.

The Baha'i view of unity is unity in diversity, not unity in sameness.

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15 Sep 2012, 8:27 pm

nominalist wrote:

laustcawz wrote:

The Baha'i view of unity is unity in diversity, not unity in sameness.

(Sociology!

)

But isn't it still unity, no matter if it's in diversity or sameness, meaning that you could argument that laustcawz is right in the comment you quoted? Wouldn't unity in diversity also function as a limitation and cause conformity on some level? Why wouldn't it if it's an organization, organizing people in smaller numbers than the total?

Tim_Tex
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15 Sep 2012, 8:33 pm

Thanks for all the feedback!

I was just curious about the basic tenets of those faiths, not planning to convert.

And seeing this thread, I was noticing how old it was. Wow.

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nominalist
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15 Sep 2012, 8:33 pm

Underscore wrote:

(Sociology!

)

Thank you.

Underscore wrote:

But isn't it still unity, no matter if it's in diversity or sameness, meaning that you could argument that laustcawz is right in the comment you quoted? Wouldn't unity in diversity also function as a limitation and cause conformity on some level? Why wouldn't it if it's an organization, organizing people in smaller numbers than the total?

Unity is the reality of existence. Roy Bhaskar (not a Baha'i) called it the cosmic envelope:

Quote:

The term “ground state” is a term ... [which includes] not only the more religious concept of “soul” but also the secular concept of our best or “higher selves”; all ground states are connected in ... the “cosmic envelope.”

Interdisciplinarity and Climate Change: Transforming Knowledge and Practice for Our Global Future. Roy Bhaskar, Cheryl Frank, Petter Naess, and Jenneth Parker, editors. New York: Routledge. 2010. Page 114.

Underscore
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15 Sep 2012, 9:37 pm

nominalist wrote:

Underscore wrote:

(Sociology!

)

Thank you.

No problem. I like the subject myself.

nominalist wrote:

Unity is the reality of existence. Roy Bhaskar (not a Baha'i) called it the cosmic envelope:

Quote:

Uhm. I'm having a hard time looking at it that way, I don't know where he gets it from. What is meant by "souls" would be interesting to know, but being connected in a "cosmic envelope", unity as the reality of existence.. What is interfering with the state of solitude and individuality? What exterior factor is he talking about?

I know this is some kind of functionalism, but I don't agree nevertheless.

nominalist
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15 Sep 2012, 11:31 pm

Underscore wrote:

This file (PDF), for my students, summarizes the theory. According to Bhaskar, the level of "the Real" (structures or mechanisms) can be dominated by either the cosmic envelope/co-presence (unity) or demi-reality (disunity). The liberation of individuals occurs by acting on the level of the cosmic envelope.

Underscore wrote:

I know this is some kind of functionalism, but I don't agree nevertheless.

Structural-functionalism is based upon empiricism and rationalism (sometimes idealism). Critical Realism comes out of an very different intellectual tradition.

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