Study: U.S. Economic Status: Again, #1 in the World

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Orwell
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23 May 2008, 3:36 pm

Ragtime wrote:

I call something a recession at the point at which I notice at least some changes in the prices of my rent, my food, my clothing, and other general goods and services our economy sustains. And minor changes, I'd called a downturn.

Other than gas, which price is controlled by OPEC, nothing in my life has gone up in price. You'd think something would have, if we were in a recession. :lol:

I mean, seriously, if you don't even notice the recession, and you're poor, it's probably not there! :lol:

Recessions tend to be deflationary, actually. Or at least to involve a lower rate of inflation, as we haven't had deflation at any time in recent history. In a recession, you would not notice an increase in the prices you pay unless we get to the most difficult economic situation, inflationary recession, which is what we saw in the 1970s. Normally, that would not be expected to occur, and if it does we are in deep s**t.

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Sargon
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23 May 2008, 4:02 pm

ShadowStats again, eh? As we mentioned in a previous post, they don't seem too terribly reliable when compared to the census of economists, government stats, Haver, or OECD stats. I wouldn't base any opinions on those stats if they are completely the opposite of the aforementioned groups if I were you. At any rate, by definition, we are not in a recession right now (the only agreed definition is two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth; GDP growth was positive in Q1 2008), which annoys me greatly when these ignorant types keep saying we are. The -2% GDP growth is not feasible if you compare it to the BEA or any respectable organization's methodology of calculating GDP (and even if it is -2%, it still isn't a recession!).

Edit: And of course his unemployment and inflation numbers seem completely absurd.

ascan
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23 May 2008, 4:08 pm

Ragtime wrote:

I don't know what arrests you're talking about...

That's the problem: you don't know.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/BUSINESS/05/19/bae.execs.ap/index.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/27/usa.humanrights

Ragtime wrote:

...Come on over here if you haven't yet...

No thanks.

pbcoll
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23 May 2008, 4:11 pm

What, exactly, is this 'competitiveness'? The US doesn't lead the world in real economic growth, neither in total terms nor in per capita terms. So does this 'competitiveness' mean something in the real world or is it another one of those economist-in-an-ivory-tower fantasies, like 'core' inflation?

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Awesomelyglorious
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23 May 2008, 4:18 pm

pbcoll wrote:

Well, I would not be so bitter towards the ivory tower, but actually, national competitiveness is not a core economic concept and is disputed by a number of economists on grounds of whether it is meaningful.

skafather84
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23 May 2008, 4:20 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Of course they wont hear of it. It came from a conservative source, therefore it is wrong. :roll:

more that i don't trust brit hume. there's a number of conservative resources i like (my favorite being the cato institute) but brit hume is a propagandist for the neo-conservatives first and foremost. and neo-conservatives are only conservative in name alone...especially not in the economy.

skafather84
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23 May 2008, 4:22 pm

Odin wrote:

we are in a DEPRESSION!

being overly dramatic weakens your point. particularly when there are people still alive who had to wait in bread lines...that's disrespectful to them and their struggles.

we're most certainly going through a nasty economic patch and will see some pretty ugly things in the next coming years thanks to bush's ultra non-conservative approach to economics but it won't be great depression bad.

Ragtime
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23 May 2008, 4:22 pm

ascan wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

I don't know what arrests you're talking about...

That's the problem: you don't know.

I wouldn't be criticizing ignorance at this point. You're the one who thinks America is a s**tbag or whatever,
and that's about as ill-informed as you can become in a free country.

ascan wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/BUSINESS/05/19/bae.execs.ap/index.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/27/usa.humanrights

Ragtime wrote:

...Come on over here if you haven't yet...

No thanks.

That's just my little test of sanity and worthiness -- if you're willing to test your accusations.
Obviously, you're not, and you rather prefer to be lied to by the worst Western media sources in existance.
But hey, whatever makes you happy! (Or miserable, apparently, in this case.)

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Last edited by Ragtime on 23 May 2008, 4:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Sargon
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23 May 2008, 4:24 pm

Quote:

Competitiveness refers to how much free businesses are allowed to operate and compete with each other (as well as freedom from government regulation probably). A more competitive market generally leads to better outcomes and stronger growth (look at states where they have government controlled monopolies vs. free enterprise). The U.S. is still the world's largest single economy and as such you would expect it to not have the highest GDP growth. The main reason it is not in per capita terms is mostly because of these generally small nations with fewer people in them (so they would have a lower overall GDP), such as Luxembourg.

skafather84
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23 May 2008, 4:25 pm

Ragtime wrote:

ascan wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

I don't know what arrests you're talking about...

That's the problem: you don't know.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/BUSINESS/05/19/bae.execs.ap/index.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/27/usa.humanrights

Ragtime wrote:

...Come on over here if you haven't yet...

No thanks.

you believe yellow journalism as pure fact and you're dissing someone else's resources? your hubris knows no bounds and if there were actually a hell, your pride and arrogance would guarentee you a much lower level than i could ever hope to achieve as a simple non-believer.

Orwell
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23 May 2008, 4:26 pm

Ragtime wrote:

ascan wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

I don't know what arrests you're talking about...

That's the problem: you don't know.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/BUSINESS/05/19/bae.execs.ap/index.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/27/usa.humanrights

Ragtime wrote:

...Come on over here if you haven't yet...

No thanks.

Guardian and CNN the worst media sources in the Western world? Hardly. Even some of the most hard-core conservatives I know (and I live in one of the most staunchly conservative regions of the country) prefer CNN to Fox because the latter is blatantly crap.

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Ragtime
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23 May 2008, 4:29 pm

skafather84 wrote:

your pride and arrogance would guarentee you a much lower level than i could ever hope to achieve as a simple non-believer.

Well, we'll see, but I'm content to wait and find out.

...

And I just said a prayer for your soul.

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Ragtime
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23 May 2008, 4:34 pm

Orwell wrote:

Even some of the most hard-core conservatives I know (and I live in one of the most staunchly conservative regions of the country) prefer CNN to Fox because the latter is blatantly crap.

That I cannot believe. CNN's just got the nicer Hollywood angled zoom-ins, dramatic soundtracks/drums during their coverage, and forboding narrators -- all the high-budget drama tweaks.
But I'm more interested in fair and balanced substance.
And Fox is far too liberal for my tastes, but still worth consulting in my view.

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Awesomelyglorious
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23 May 2008, 4:39 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Cato is supposed to be moderately libertarian.

Sargon
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23 May 2008, 4:41 pm

Quote:

And Fox is far too liberal for my tastes, but still worth consulting in my view.

Wow....this is the first time I've heard Fox being called too liberal. Personally, the differences between CNN and Fox seems to be pretty minor from what I've seen (except for their "commentary shows" ala Bill O'Reilly).

iamnotaparakeet
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23 May 2008, 4:42 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Cato is supposed to be moderately libertarian.

TANGENT:

Cato in Roman history was for the Roman Republic and he was a Stoic I think. Much like Cicero.

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