Why I don't support the troops.

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Having an army that goes a bit beyond self-defense is a good thing, if used with a light touch. For events like the genocide in Rwanda, the ability of other nations to intervene to stop real suffering and madness is just and humane. It's also important for keeping localized wars contained, instead of spilling out of through out a region.

US is kind of failing at this though. Having invested the bulk of its military power in Iraq and Afganistan, it actually can't do that kind of miltary work anywhere else. And really, Iraq wasn't nearly bad enough to justify the investment. Afganistan was worth it, particularly as it was the home to the people who actually attacked the US, but progress is slow there due to the lack of troops to keep peace. If all of the US's attention had stayed on it, Afganistan probably would be looking pretty good right now.

Yep. But I support neither the war nor the troops, so you can't accuse me of inconsistency.

Those are the majority of people I know who enlist in the military. My post was about troops. I didn't say they all were like that; indeed, I even specified that they weren't but rather a significant portion of the military. Not a fallacy of composition.

Way to make assumptions about what I do or don't do. Really, is it wrong to feel sad that people are forced into poor choices? I didn't lay the blame with them, just pointing out another example of why simply being in the military does not entitle one to being hero-worshipped. It's certainly not the fault of the poor that that's the best choice they have.


Not really. I have separated the two issues: I hate the policy for getting people killed unnecessarily, I disrespect the people partly for participating in the policy, partly for their motives for enlisting. Also partly because every person I have met with recent military experience acts like they're better than the rest of us. They seem to have this belief that we all need to worship them because they're "fighting for our country." We're supposed to move out of their way and maintain a respectful silence unless we're addressed. And NO disputing anything with them, ever. It doesn't matter who's more informed on any issue, they're in the military and not to be questioned. The way they intimidate and look down upon "civilians" annoys me.


OK. I can oppose bad policy on the basis of it being bad policy. I agree with your last sentence BTW, but I'm more concerned that we're killing people for no apparent reason.

I can recall a similar thread that contained an argument like this a while back. I can't recall who created it, but consensus says he is a troll and a bigot.

When did America become the world's policeman? Why do we need to fulfill that role rather than the EU or the UN? Or even local regional bodies like the SADC or SEATO? The Concert of Europe had the goal of continental police, and it didn't work out too well.


Going into Afghanistan to try and kill bin Laden=self-defense. Justifiable. Going into Iraq... well, it's no longer even possible to pin down a definite motive for invasion. It doesn't seem to have been self-defense, so I condemn it.

OK. You can call me a troll and a bigot if you like. I kind of figured you would do so, actually. I spent a little too long being bullied to be really affected by any epithets uttered against me. Any specific responses, or are you content with name-calling?

BTW, consensus considers you a troll and/or bigot often enough for me to expect that you would have rejected consensus opinion by now.

You really have a hard time detecting sarcasm. You also have a difficult time understanding a post that wasn't directed at you.

Yes, I do. I'm Aspie. Be more explicit if you're using sarcasm on a forum for socially-impaired people.

It wasn't? It certainly seemed to be. Unless you were making an allusion to another post that I didn't pick up on. Are you referring to the argument you made that you can't support the troops without supporting the war? Because that's not really a similar argument to what I'm saying. Please clarify, I'm confused now.

The thread of "supporting the troops". That is all I was alluding to, not the reasons/argument of why.

I'm still not sure what you're talking about. There was an earlier thread about supporting the troops that you still feel bitter about?

Hulk angry!!



No. I am referring to mine. However, mine went bad because people, like you (no offense), have difficult time in picking up sarcasm (the part when i called everyone wrong).

I can see that in your avatar. I'm no fan of Obama either.




None taken. I know I don't pick up on sarcasm. Though I think I may have participated in some moderately trollish destruction of that particular thread. Don't really remember though, it was a while back.

I have an idea who that might be

This is where I jump out from behind the rock,
call Orwell a name, and dive back behind cover
once agian

i know it seems foolish
but thats what he does in my posts

one word one name? thats all I get?
but Orwell is pure biased slander
ok one.. whatever

how bout an adjective?

IGNORANT

Sorry Orwell you earned it
if you are an American you should
know the troops are fighting to maintian
the freedom you enjoy everyday.

if not

you dont count
not until America resestablishes
itself as the world leader

until America looks within and finds the
strength that truly makes it great, the
strength that is the American citizen..

to hell with everyone else

Last edited by Fred2670 on 26 May 2008, 6:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

can you be more specific about this freedom your troops are fighting to maintain? are you suggesting that iraq posed a threat to the freedom of the average american citizen?

Yes, those people have a tendency to be the main composition of the military.

Someone has to defend the nation, their countrymen, and their nation's best interests, at least. It's undeniable that there are threats and rivals out there. War is a neccessary evil.

I respect the military, and I respect anyone willing to put their life on the line, and fight for their nation. No, I don't respect sadist brutes who are just out to kill, but they do the job. It doesn't matter whether the war's "justified" or not, what matters is that they signed up to make something of their lives. You don't have to support them, just have a little respect.

no



maybe

why not? because you're just spouting out some rhetorical nonsense you heard your parents or the television say? or perhaps you're just a cretin.



be realistic.