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Why hell can't technically exist

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twoshots
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05 Jun 2008, 8:54 pm

The_Chosen_One wrote:
that's the most ridiculous load of BS I've read so far, Raggy. As History said, the idea of punishment is to make sure that the offender sees the wrong they have committed, and gets a chance to correct that wrong. Sending a soul to hell for eternity completely defeats the purpose as there is no chance for rehabilitation (you may say that judgement saves everyone ultimately, but that is debatable)

As twoshots has addressed, this is not the only possible conception of punishment. I am not well read on this subject, but for example, Kant once wrote: "Judicial punishment can never be used merely as a means to promote some other good for the criminal himself or for civil society, but instead it must in all cases be imposed on him only on the ground that he has committed a crime." (emphasis added) Presupposing the truth of one's peculiar construct only shows that you disapprove of the other's.


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The_Chosen_One
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05 Jun 2008, 9:08 pm

Raggy, you believe that your god tells you everything and converses with you what to say, right? What if this god then turned around and told you to 'shut the f**k up! You are giving me a headache!' Would you then obey him? If you didn't, then you would be disobeying your Lord and Master and would be hellbound as punishment. Then again, it is only your BELIEF that this deity speaks to you, and that 'he' would tell you to 'shut up'. But what if.........?


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05 Jun 2008, 10:27 pm

Ragtime wrote:
"Judgment" and "mercy" are considered the "more important matters" of God's law. One could argue that judgment and mercy are at odds with each other. But God is so great, that He combines them, in ways that, like most of God's attributes, exceed our human understanding. So, God is both rigid and forgiving, as He wishes.

Well, the issue is "exceed our human understanding" is hardly much of a counter-argument. It is sort of just the insertion of a mysterious, undefined "X" as a solution.
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This parable illustrates how God is both fair and merciful, and how He is thoroughly good in that.

Ok. Well, a parable, does not actually handle any of the logical issues though or at least it doesn't thoroughly engage them.



Sand
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06 Jun 2008, 2:24 am

You cannot get a religious person to view the world with any logic or reason since that would demand such a huge paradigm change as to be emotionally devastating.



The_Chosen_One
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06 Jun 2008, 2:44 am

It's like asking a person to look for a mole on his arse so he can see how big it is WITHOUT the aid of 2 mirrors.... Can't be done.


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oscuria
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06 Jun 2008, 2:01 pm

skafather84 wrote:
so...here's a question about that:

all mentions of hell seem to imply that it's a permanent thing. what is the point of the punishment if there's no lesson learned from it or improvement to be made?


Permanent as in: Permanent for the condemned soul?

OR

Permanent as in: Permanent existing world?

I haven't thought much about Hell, or Heaven for that matter. BUT if it does exist, it is just like any other world (in the sense that one is (re)born there).


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Sand
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06 Jun 2008, 2:11 pm

Fascinating concept. Reborn into a world to suffer eternally with no memory as to why the pain is inflicted. If anything outdoes the accepted insanities of religion this one seems to do the trick.



skafather84
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06 Jun 2008, 2:11 pm

oscuria wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
so...here's a question about that:

all mentions of hell seem to imply that it's a permanent thing. what is the point of the punishment if there's no lesson learned from it or improvement to be made?


Permanent as in: Permanent for the condemned soul?

OR

Permanent as in: Permanent existing world?

I haven't thought much about Hell, or Heaven for that matter. BUT if it does exist, it is just like any other world (in the sense that one is (re)born there).


for the condemned soul is what i was always given the impression of it being. which seems kinda pointless.



skafather84
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06 Jun 2008, 2:12 pm

Sand wrote:
Fascinating concept. Reborn into a world to suffer eternally with no memory as to why the pain is inflicted. If anything outdoes the accepted insanities of religion this one seems to do the trick.


seems like a big craps shoot to me.



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06 Jun 2008, 2:27 pm

Actually, just look around. How many millions are starving, sick, in despair, lacking all the basic decencies for nothing they have done wrong. I know it's not a new idea but this world sure looks like Hell



twoshots
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06 Jun 2008, 2:28 pm

Sand wrote:
Actually, just look around. How many millions are starving, sick, in despair, lacking all the basic decencies for nothing they have done wrong. I know it's not a new idea but this world sure looks like Hell

Only because you lack imagination :twisted:


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oscuria
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06 Jun 2008, 2:37 pm

Sand wrote:
Fascinating concept. Reborn into a world to suffer eternally with no memory as to why the pain is inflicted. If anything outdoes the accepted insanities of religion this one seems to do the trick.



Brilliant, Watson! Outstanding declaration on the matters of human ignorance and trivialities!!


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