Doesn't God use magic?

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I am sure the reason why witches were persecuted was that there powers were thought to only belong to god, and that they must have learnt to use this magic from some other source. So magic is thought to be the tool of god.

No, witches were persecuted because their powers came not from God but from the Devil. And if not from the Devil, then from spirits or "gods" of dubious origin. I don't mean to start a fight here, I'm just stating what Christians believe.

Oscuria your diving me nuts what about the cows ?????????

"Magic" in itself implies a source other than God. There is a very fine semantic difference between "miracle" and "magic." Harry Houdini, Criss Angel and David Copperfield are certainly not miracle-workers. Their magic (if you can call it that) is the showmanship variety.
There have been plenty of medical miracles on-record, ie. people who shouldn't have lived but did, people who shouldn't have recovered but did.

So for now I'm at a loss to explain magic, miracles, showmanship, sleight-of-hand, and God.

I think like this:

1. Magic can be fooling people by misleading their sense of reason usually by moving things very fast and/or in a covert way.
2. Magic can be taking over what people see, smell, hear or feel by using a form of hypnosis.
3. Magic can also be locally changing the laws of physics by the power of a magician's mind.

1. is best called trickery to seperate it from 2. and 3.
2. and 3. are better called occult (or hidden) powers, because they are exerted by the power of mind rather than manipulative tricks.

Jesus was a yogi who had mastered some of the occult powers.
If you see Jesus as a guru or divine teacher, then his use of occult powers can be seen as part of his divine plan for humanity. Such a guru never uses his occult powers for selfish reasons, but as a tool to help teach his followers God's plan. Christians prefer to call them miracles although technically speaking they aren't any different from occult powers used by any other yogi because they see them as part of God's plan for humanity.

Jesus was the Son of God, not some occult yogi. Jesus was the Wod of God made Flesh. Jesus was/is the Redeemer of Mankind. That's my Saviour you're talking about, fella. Try to show a little respect, huh? You're lucky this is the Internet.

Arthur C. Clarke pointed out that all technology from an advanced civilization appears as magic. When Jesus pulled out his cell phone and took pictures of the crowd it, of course, appeared to them as magic. And when he ordered a pizza and St. Peter appeared with the delicious food, that too appeared as magic. Of course, we know better today, but we still have problems walking on water. Jesus no doubt had miniature surfboards on his feet and we still have that problem to be solved.

Arthur C. Clarke was just a man. It would be wrong to deify him or his words.

Last edited by slowmutant on 03 Aug 2008, 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

If you want something that means essentially the same thing as what you mean by magic, use 'spiritual power' or 'supernatural power'.

If you want to know what the use of making a distinction is, consider the differences between the sources. God is a) all powerful and b) perfectly good. Demons are a) limited in power and b) quite evil.

If you ask God for help, he knows what's best for you, regardless of what you actually ask for. Also, God doesn't hate you, so asking him for something is not dangerous. If you ask a demon for help, even if you get what you ask for, it will bite you in the end, somehow. Also, there are some things they just aren't capable of doing.

So who would you ask for help, someone who is powerful and loves you, or someone who's wimpy and hates your guts?

Remember, the devil can appear as an angel of light and can trick you if your defenses are down. Satan is the Father of Lies and will steal your soul if you let him. So watch out!

Nobody deified Clarke. He merely made a philosophical observation.

My soul has been stolen several times but I found no difficulty getting resouled. In the several interims I found no difficulty navigating but sometimes I cheated at cards.

Last edited by Sand on 03 Aug 2008, 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

And we are free to refute it. Had Clarke lived in the Middle Ages they would have burned him at the stake. Nowadays, we are a little more tolerant of each other's differences.

You sound a bit unhappy not to have toasted Clarke for noticing how gullible people can be. Is it that you approve of gullibility?

I found it offensive.

I'm not sure what you found offensive. If you find gullibility offensive I agree absolutely. If you found it offensive that someone who disagrees with you is not immediately tortured to death by fire, I'm afraid we have some difficulty.
On the other hand, if you find it offensive that some people do not believe in magic then you have problems with a good number of people.

Most magicians do not use magic, they use illusions, have you heard the term illusionest. I was stateing above that it basicaly is a power that does not belong to humans, like being able to heal someone without medicine or praying to god. Basicaly people started to think that they have some powers that are not a physical cure and did not come from praying to there god to heal someone, or other. they figured that they must have recieved such powers from the devil, they also figured that females were more easily influenced by god, and witches has stuck to a female base. If someone had possesed powers simular to Jesus, or Moses and did not be huge religous people who claimed it was god then they would be prosecuted as witches. So turning a stick into a snake is not magic, or healing the blind or walking on water then I wonder what is. From hearing atound it has figured that christians have had a lot of confusion in what Jesus was, because if he possed powers that came from himself then he could either be a witch or god. And there is only supposed to be one god, so he has been branded with different titles.