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Should suicide be legalized?
Yes 83%  83%  [ 71 ]
No 17%  17%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 86

qaliqo
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06 Aug 2008, 10:23 pm

Will be quite angry if forced to die slowly, painfully, and at great cost to society. A dignified death isn't just my right, it's my responsibility to those who survive me. Against forced euthanasia, but think that education on the subject is a good idea; slow, expensive deaths can evaporate an inheritance and tear close families apart.


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slowmutant
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06 Aug 2008, 10:38 pm

Quote:
"Some have the courage to live, while others have the courage to die"


Courage to die? No, suicide is very much an act of cowardice. Facing life is what requires courage.



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06 Aug 2008, 10:47 pm

The legality of suicide is completely irrelevant because it's a sin. And even if it's not a sin, it would hurt everybody you know and love. Suicide is a sin because anyone who takes their own life is formally turrning away from God.



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08 Aug 2008, 1:52 am

Orwell wrote:
Can suicide really be illegal? What would the penalty be? Capital punishment?

Only if the perpetrator fails at the attempt.


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greenblue
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08 Aug 2008, 2:00 am

slowmutant wrote:
Courage to die? No, suicide is very much an act of cowardice. Facing life is what requires courage.

Well, actually, it depends, it might actually be the opposite, people, in normal circumstances, have the instinct of survival, that makes us want and fight to live rather than seeking death, on the other hand, one would seek death to end suffering and pain, out of desperation.

slowmutant wrote:
The legality of suicide is completely irrelevant because it's a sin. And even if it's not a sin, it would hurt everybody you know and love. Suicide is a sin because anyone who takes their own life is formally turrning away from God.

How about those suicide bombers who do it in the name of God? they could claim they turn away from the corrput humankind to face God.


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greenblue
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08 Aug 2008, 2:03 am

The real question is, Should Assisted Suicide be legal? I think, yes, I believe that doctor-assisted suicide should be permited under some circumstances, to end suffering, should be a right, in this case.


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08 Aug 2008, 2:11 am

Spokane_Girl wrote:
anbuend wrote:
slowmutant -- actually that's been considered by some people who are fanatical about making suicide easy, but has nothing to do with the question of suicide being legal.

Suicide is not illegal in my country anyway. I see no reason to make it easy or pleasant (and if so, it should be across the board, not just easy and pleasant for some people because that's a massive ethical quagmire).



I thought you lived in the USA.


I live in Oregon, where assisted suicide "Oregon Death with Dignity Act"
has been legal for 8 years.

http://www.internationaltaskforce.org/orstats.htm

here are the statistics for the last 8 years.

Merle


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Awesomelyglorious
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08 Aug 2008, 4:49 am

Yes, it should be legal. Heck, the mere concern that a person might commit suicide is enough that the police have the power to put somebody away for observation against their will. I certainly do not support action to move people to anything against their will.



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08 Aug 2008, 7:20 am

I didn't think it was actually illegal now, here in the UK or in the US at least. However, I was under the understanding that it's something most, if not all, insurance companies wouldn't pay out for. Not quite the same thing.

Assisted suicide is a different thing bearing in mind that by then the person is incapable of killing themselves (legal), it'a about them getting someone else to kill them (usually not legal). I for one am not sure on that count...there's always going to be the 'slippery slope' argument, but there are also always going to be those in terrible suffering who will not recover and for whom palliative care has little effect...what then?

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I've been depressed. I've been suicidal. I'm glad I survived; and I want other people to survive, too, because no matter how much they want to die now (and chances are they don't really even want to die; they just don't want to live the way they're living), they won't want to when their circumstances are better and they are thinking straight again.


Absolutely. But to be able to help them do that, we need more honesty about the whole issue. And more compassion, too. As you correctly point out, nobody who gets to thinking that way is in their right mind, and moral judgements quite often put people off from seeking the help they need.

Skillshine, it sounds like you know more about this than many of us. I'm so sorry.


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monty
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08 Aug 2008, 7:43 am

slowmutant wrote:
Courage to die? No, suicide is very much an act of cowardice. Facing life is what requires courage.

The legality of suicide is completely irrelevant because it's a sin. And even if it's not a sin, it would hurt everybody you know and love. Suicide is a sin because anyone who takes their own life is formally turrning away from God.



Disagree. Both sometimes require courage.

A person who is eaten up with cancer and on their death bed might have little to gain by screwing up their courage and 'facing life'. If there is a God and she has a plan, death is a part of it. Using medicine to delay death is playing God just as much as using some method to speed up the inevitable - it's not allowing things to take their natural course, which is often confused with the will of God.

Most suicides are a result of depression - and US society is still reluctant to include mental health benefits in insurance policies. That is the real sin - thousands of unnecessary, preventable suicide deaths each year due to the stigma of psychiatric disorders, an alienated and dehumanized culture, and corporate rationing/denial of care. Do us a favor and stop preaching about the minor sin of dying people that might want a little control - instead of focusing on that speck, why not focus on the multitudes of depressed but otherwise healthy people that kill themselves each year? Why not stop preaching against them, and start advocating for them?



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08 Aug 2008, 1:49 pm

Skillshine wrote:
I lost a Brother to suicide 11 years ago. He was diagnosed Bipolar at the age of 19, he attempted suicide several times between the age of 19 and 21 (always with pills). He seemed to cope a little better with life after the birth of his daughter and completion of school ( he was a brilliant Man). He graduated top of his class (industrial electrician) and held a very good job up until the day he died.

He moved out West in 1994 to take a very good job, making amazing money. He didn't tell alot of people about his illness though, he thought they would think differently of him. I would say that from the age of 24 right through until his death at age 31, he had very view depressive episodes and even fewer manic ones. And then...just like that.....he was gone one night! he hung himself in his basement....he was 31 years old

Is what he did illegal? I don't think so. I do think that what he did was "in a moment of pure darkness" . Somewhere in his thoughts at that moment he believed it was for the best. Maybe he was tired of fighting for some true sense of "normal" (whatever normal really is) or maybe he was tired of feeling like he had to be someone he wasn't (someone without this illness). I read a quote one day that has helped me through 11 years of questions, pain, heartbreak and wonder:

"Some have the courage to live, while others have the courage to die"


Skillshine, people with bipolar disorder are at a Very high risk of comitting suicide, particularly during a depressive episode. Suicide is very much an impulsive act in most cases and often times when people feel suicidal their judgement is impaired; so the illegality of suicide clearly is Not an incentive for people with suicidal thoughts to Stop and think. IIRC, people who are suicidal can often be saved by having a crisis counselor to talk them through it.
Did your brother take medication for his bipolarity? If he did I wonder if he stopped taking it. A good friend of mine who's bipolar was in trouble with the law and had to go back to the slammer for a month because he violated the terms of his parole by getting high cuz he felt suicidal.



ed
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08 Aug 2008, 2:46 pm

slowmutant wrote:
The legality of suicide is completely irrelevant because it's a sin. And even if it's not a sin, it would hurt everybody you know and love. Suicide is a sin because anyone who takes their own life is formally turrning away from God.


This argument is totally irrelavent to those of us who don't believe in God.


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m91
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08 Aug 2008, 4:00 pm

I absolutely think it should be legal. Assisted suicide would be even better.

Firstly, only the people who are suffering know just how much they are suffering. No one else can directly feel their pain. Yet everyone tries to force them to live. It's extremely selfish to make someone live and suffer. The people who are against suicide are always the ones who are having a fun life, going out with friends etc. It should be a crime to extend someone's suffering against their will.

Currently, the ways that some people try to commit suicide ends them up being permanently disabled or brain damaged - the government would MUCH rather have the victim end up surviving with severe brain damage than dying. If assisted suicide is legalised, then people who no longer want to live can die peacefully.


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08 Aug 2008, 5:18 pm

how about not sticking people who fail attempts in mental wards? i resent the idea that a persons suffering makes them sick, and that forced drugging medical freedom and violates a persons rights to control thier body.



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08 Aug 2008, 5:35 pm

I would legalise it not to make it easier applicable or encouraging it, but because to make a courtcase out of it is just unneeded. The person is dead and not coming back, so what form of punishment can you still do? Punishing his relatives for a choice he made himself also makes no sense?
In the end every suicide leaves people behind who have to mourn and need time to deal with their loss. For that purpose alone, courts should just let it be and leave those people time to mourn rather than make a case of it.

Making it illegal as deterrent is completely useless, because when you're dead you cannot be punished anyway. So making it illegal is not going to stop anyone.

The thing we should do is research the cause of many suicides, and invest in programs that can help people through a rough time, investing in preventing suicides. This is the one deterrent that can work rather than making it illegal.


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08 Aug 2008, 6:35 pm

m91 wrote:
I absolutely think it should be legal. Assisted suicide would be even better.


And then all you have to do is forge a statement with the proper wording for any murder you commit to turn out to have been an "assisted suicide"! Imagine the lucrative possibilities!