911 issue: I wonder, what do majority of American ppl

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iamnotaparakeet
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28 Aug 2008, 1:19 pm

lelia wrote:
don't know if that includes the Christian Arabs or not


I don't know about Arabs, but I've met one Christian Somali and he seemed an okay guy. Even the Muslim Somalis don't seem to have/show racist attitudes. The Iranians I've met are though.



LeKiwi
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28 Aug 2008, 1:28 pm

Scuse me, but those of you quoting Occam's Razor in here...

1 - Poor 'terrorists' (omgz t3h arabs r cummingz!!) from the other side of the world manage to infiltrate American security, learn to fly planes, figure out the architecture of two enormous buildings, hijack planes using small tools, get into the locked cockpit, AND learn how to bend the laws of physics in a way not even Einstein could have managed to make enormous towers collapse in a way that defies all laws of physics and is physically impossible by any known law given the positions the planes hit - and not only do it once, but twice! - including managing to collapse other buildings the planes didn't even touch, and leave no wreckage at two of the four 'crash sites'....

2 - People with access to the buildings get in, plant bombs during routine maintenance (you can ask all the witnesses inside what they heard - even CNN reported this intitially), detonate them at a time a major exercise for that very scenario is going on, buildings collapse in the standard way for building implosions, people die.


And you're saying you'd go for theory 1 over theory 2 using the Razor?! Think you've got a bit of a backward understanding of it just personally....


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ValMikeSmith
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28 Aug 2008, 1:39 pm

Quote:
Calling the attackers cavemen is insulting and underestimates their abilities,

I said CaveMAN and I was referring specifically to Osama Bin Laden ONLY.
See, he's literally a caveman in a cave. << (click here)



Last edited by ValMikeSmith on 28 Aug 2008, 1:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Oggleleus
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28 Aug 2008, 1:43 pm

If a bully stated he was going to pick on you after school this same logic that I am hearing here would mean that it is really a conspiracy comprised of the Pricipal, all of the Teachers and everyone in between, but the bully is innocent even after he punched your lights out!



iamnotaparakeet
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28 Aug 2008, 1:47 pm

Oggleleus wrote:
If a bully stated he was going to pick on you after school this same logic that I am hearing here would mean that it is really a conspiracy comprised of the Pricipal, all of the Teachers and everyone in between, but the bully is innocent even after he punched your lights out!


Rather, I think they're trying to promote that it was an all American attack against America.



Fnord
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28 Aug 2008, 1:56 pm

Horrible events that day.

The rest of my feelings - especially regarding the effing cowards that planned it and the effing b*st*rds that carried it out - can not be expressed without profanity.

Let me leave it at that.



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28 Aug 2008, 2:00 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Oggleleus wrote:
If a bully stated he was going to pick on you after school this same logic that I am hearing here would mean that it is really a conspiracy comprised of the Pricipal, all of the Teachers and everyone in between, but the bully is innocent even after he punched your lights out!


Rather, I think they're trying to promote that it was an all American attack against America.



Not necessarily. More just pointing out the blindingly obvious. As in, those planes could not possibly have caused the towers to collapse - and lest we forget Building 7 that did exactly the same thing without being hit!! - as it was a physical impossibility. :roll:

I don't care which faction of your pathetic government was behind it, it's irrelevent; they got what they wanted and their own citizens and the rest of the world are now suffering the results. Just as they planned.

[The grammar pedant in me is loathe to post this link due to the typos in it, but it's a very simple summary with photos nevertheless to refresh the memories of those who forgot.... http://911review.org/Wiki/Building7Collapse.shtml ].


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ValMikeSmith
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28 Aug 2008, 2:02 pm

Quote:
Rather, I think they're trying to promote that it was an all American attack against America.

You mean like the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City? OK. Sure.



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28 Aug 2008, 2:07 pm

ValMikeSmith wrote:
The Majority have forgotten thinking about it because it happened too long ago
and too far away from where they live and they don't care about the details
especially why Building 7 collapsed at ground level without any fire or even damages
since that building was the mayor's bomb shelter and he ran out of it
just a minute before the other two buildings blew up.

Occam's razor is the magic trick of 9/11.
Caveman on the other side of the world did it!! !
Anything else is too unbelievable and even too complicated to believe.

Here is another example. This cartoon is all about how to make money.
It's not a conspiracy theory or a scam but it's just too strange to believe.

How Money REALLY Works


Ahh, nothing like a good propaganda video. :lol:



Fnord
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28 Aug 2008, 2:16 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
1 - Poor 'terrorists' (omgz t3h arabs r cummingz!!) from the other side of the world manage to infiltrate American security, learn to fly planes, figure out the architecture of two enormous buildings, hijack planes using small tools, get into the locked cockpit, AND learn how to bend the laws of physics in a way not even Einstein could have managed to make enormous towers collapse in a way that defies all laws of physics and is physically impossible by any known law given the positions the planes hit - and not only do it once, but twice! - including managing to collapse other buildings the planes didn't even touch, and leave no wreckage at two of the four 'crash sites'...

Correction:

WhatReallyHappened wrote:
20 well-supported terrorists from the other side of the world manage to bypass American security, learn to fly planes, and select high-profile buildings as targets, while 19 of them hijack planes using small, but deadly tools, lock themsleves in the cockpits, and fly all but one plane into those buildings, which collapsed in free fall under their own weight, which toppled into other buildings and casued them to collapse, leaving debris consisting of building materials, airplane components, and human body parts scattered over such a wide area that identification of the pieces becomes nearly impossible, so that conspiracy nuts who are ignorant of engineering, physics, and reality in general can swoop in and make outrageous claims based solely on ignorance and paranoia and with the sole purpose of being the center of attention in any conversation related to the events of September 11, 2001.

The "911 Insider Conspiracies" have all been thoroughly debunked, and now you want to turn "WrongPlanet" into the latest battleground for your fantasies. I have seen the so-called "evidence" that has been offered, and have personally found them so full of holes, assumptions, questions, and outright lies that they make Harry Potter stories look like reality by comparison.



iamnotaparakeet
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28 Aug 2008, 2:20 pm

Fnord wrote:
LeKiwi wrote:
1 - Poor 'terrorists' (omgz t3h arabs r cummingz!!) from the other side of the world manage to infiltrate American security, learn to fly planes, figure out the architecture of two enormous buildings, hijack planes using small tools, get into the locked cockpit, AND learn how to bend the laws of physics in a way not even Einstein could have managed to make enormous towers collapse in a way that defies all laws of physics and is physically impossible by any known law given the positions the planes hit - and not only do it once, but twice! - including managing to collapse other buildings the planes didn't even touch, and leave no wreckage at two of the four 'crash sites'...

Correction:

WhatReallyHappened wrote:
20 well-supported terrorists from the other side of the world manage to bypass American security, learn to fly planes, and select high-profile buildings as targets, while 19 of them hijack planes using small, but deadly tools, lock themsleves in the cockpits, and fly all but one plane into those buildings, which collapsed in free fall under their own weight, which toppled into other buildings and casued them to collapse, leaving debris consisting of building materials, airplane components, and human body parts scattered over such a wide area that identification of the pieces becomes nearly impossible, so that conspiracy nuts who are ignorant of engineering, physics, and reality in general can swoop in and make outrageous claims based solely on ignorance and paranoia and with the sole purpose of being the center of attention in any conversation related to the events of September 11, 2001.

The "911 Insider Conspiracies" have all been thoroughly debunked, and now you want to turn "WrongPlanet" into the latest battleground for your fantasies. I have seen the so-called "evidence" that has been offered, and have personally found them so full of holes, assumptions, questions, and outright lies that they make Harry Potter stories look like reality by comparison.


Though I don't agree with you concerning my historical/religious perspectives, I really think the above is excellent. Good job on the corrections. :)



LeKiwi
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28 Aug 2008, 2:24 pm

*bangs head against wall*

Why is it that the people who need to understand this most are the ones in the biggest denial?!

I'm not sure what disinformation they feed you over there (I imagine it's a lot), but wake up and smell the coffee with the rest of the world guys - physics! It's simple physics!

And explain Building 7 please, the one that wasn't hit, was hardly touched by shrapnel, had no obvious fire (in my line of work I can assure you fire wouldn't have touched that thing, let alone collapsed it), yet still pancaked in the same as the two main buildings - that is, the same way any building being imploded would do.


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Fnord
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28 Aug 2008, 2:37 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
*bangs head against wall*

Why is it that the people who need to understand this most are the ones in the biggest denial?!

I'm not sure what disinformation they feed you over there (I imagine it's a lot), but wake up and smell the coffee with the rest of the world guys - physics! It's simple physics!

And explain Building 7 please, the one that wasn't hit, was hardly touched by shrapnel, had no obvious fire (in my line of work I can assure you fire wouldn't have touched that thing, let alone collapsed it), yet still pancaked in the same as the two main buildings - that is, the same way any building being imploded would do.

Please explain why you think we "need" to believe what you say? What would be the point? Are you trying to foment insurrection? Or do you really think that Aspies and Auties would stupidly believe everything you tell them just because you tell them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center wrote:
The original 7 World Trade Center was 47 stories tall, clad in red exterior masonry, and occupied a trapezoidal footprint. An elevated walkway connected the building to the World Trade Center plaza. The building was situated above a Consolidated Edison (Con Ed) power substation, which imposed unique structural design constraints. When the building opened in 1987, Silverstein had difficulties attracting tenants. In 1988, Salomon Brothers signed a long-term lease, and became the main tenants of the building. On September 11, 2001, 7 WTC was damaged by debris when the nearby North Tower of the WTC collapsed. The debris also ignited fires, which continued to burn throughout the afternoon on lower floors of the building, with a lack of water to fight the fires. The building collapsed completely at 5:20 p.m., when a critical column on the 13th floor buckled and triggered structural failure throughout.

That's the reality, sunshine. Go peddle your lies to Hollywood; I hear Alan Smithee is looking for a good 911 script.

(Thanx, iamnotaparakeet - I received that article from someone else, without the Wiki accreditation. -Fnord-)



Last edited by Fnord on 28 Aug 2008, 2:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

iamnotaparakeet
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28 Aug 2008, 2:40 pm

Quote:
The original 7 World Trade Center was 47 stories tall, clad in red exterior masonry, and occupied a trapezoidal footprint. An elevated walkway connected the building to the World Trade Center plaza. The building was situated above a Consolidated Edison (Con Ed) power substation, which imposed unique structural design constraints. When the building opened in 1987, Silverstein had difficulties attracting tenants. In 1988, Salomon Brothers signed a long-term lease, and became the main tenants of the building. On September 11, 2001, 7 WTC was damaged by debris when the nearby North Tower of the WTC collapsed. The debris also ignited fires, which continued to burn throughout the afternoon on lower floors of the building, with a lack of water to fight the fires. The building collapsed completely at 5:20 p.m., when a critical column on the 13th floor buckled and triggered structural failure throughout.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center

2nd paragraph.

LeKiwi, I've not listened to any government propaganda. In fact my first thoughts when I heard the news reports were questioning whether it was something planned by the government, but seeing footage of the planes crashing into the buildings gives me a lot of doubt as to the conspiracy propaganda of which many have claimed there were no planes even at the towers.



LeKiwi
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28 Aug 2008, 2:53 pm

You do realise the 'official line' is a conspiracy theory itself?

And also, you don't seem to have realised that because someone doesn't buy that particular official conspiracy, doesn't mean they believe every single theory being bandied around in cyberspace. Yes, there's a lot of BS out there, but (sorry for having to paraphrase the x files here, not intentional!) the truth is also out there - in cyberspace, and in a lot of media and the writings and lectures of a lot of well-respected and highly-qualified doctors, scientists, and others.

And the reason you need to understand is so that there's enough of a groundswell to impeach that idiot you've got at the reigns - as Kucinich is trying - and rope the power-mad psychopaths you've got running the place in, before another bunch take over in November. I'm not sure how, but knowledge is power and the more people who understand what's going on the more chances you have of doing something to stop this stupidity that's spreading like a virus to the rest of the world. It's bad enough that it's happening in one place, let alone your government imposing it's laws on other countries too!!




Fnord - You tell me that wikipedia is a reliable source? When it's been shown that the US government has edited pages related to 9/11 to quash alternative 'theories' and make themselves look better?

And what the hell has anyone being an aspie or autie got to do with anything?! I'm an aspie too I'll remind you!! Mind you, it's not like it matters, you seem to believe everything you're told anyway... :roll:


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28 Aug 2008, 3:04 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
You do realise the 'official line' is a conspiracy theory itself?

Evidence, Please?

LeKiwi wrote:
And also, you don't seem to have realised that because someone doesn't buy that particular official conspiracy, doesn't mean they believe every single theory being bandied around in cyberspace. Yes, there's a lot of BS out there, but (sorry for having to paraphrase the x files here, not intentional!) the truth is also out there - in cyberspace, and in a lot of media and the writings and lectures of a lot of well-respected and highly-qualified doctors, scientists, and others.

Evidence, Please?

LeKiwi wrote:
And the reason you need to understand is so that there's enough of a groundswell to impeach that idiot you've got at the reigns - as Kucinich is trying - and rope the power-mad psychopaths you've got running the place in, before another bunch take over in November. I'm not sure how, but knowledge is power and the more people who understand what's going on the more chances you have of doing something to stop this stupidity that's spreading like a virus to the rest of the world. It's bad enough that it's happening in one place, let alone your government imposing it's laws on other countries too!!

Evidence, Please?

LeKiwi wrote:
Fnord - You tell me that wikipedia is a reliable source? When it's been shown that the US government has edited pages related to 9/11 to quash alternative 'theories' and make themselves look better?

Evidence, Please?

LeKiwi wrote:
And what the hell has anyone being an aspie or autie got to do with anything?! I'm an aspie too I'll remind you!! Mind you, it's not like it matters, you seem to believe everything you're told anyway... :roll:

I believe what I've investigated myself, and for which there is verifiable evidence. Your conspiracies are no better than the splinter cults and religious fanaticts that I've debunked, in that they rely on faith in unprovable claims, paranoid ravings, and outright lies made by ignorant and uneducable people from foreign countries with nothing better to do than stir up trouble in America.

As for the Wiki post, I grabbed the first paragraph I came to decscribing Building 7 in a folder full of articles debunking cults, conspiracies, religions, magic, and the paranormal; a folder that I've been working out for the last 30 years.

You've already lost the argument, so get over it.