QUESTION - Is the after-life really a logical concept.. ?

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= deterministic weasels.

Genetic algorithms are not what I'd call 'deterministic'

Not at all..

I see myself.. and all others.. as linking into a field of potential energy.. which exists at the very core of our being..

And that is what I identify myself with being..

A window of consciousness opening up.. in this field of potential.

In order to “download” sensory information.. from the field of objective existence..

Information which the brain processes selectively.. etc.. etc.

Before “burning” it onto the primary field (potential energy).

This process of burning.. is what we would call.. "consciousness".


This is a field which has always existed (in a paradoxical sort of way).. and always will.. because it exists outside of the limits of space/time..

This is the reason.. that at the very core of our being.. we are.. potentially.. eternal.

Or as the Book of Psalms says..

We are gods.

That’s my reasoning.

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“What is this "I"?

You will, on close introspection, find that what you really mean by "I" is the ground-stuff upon which all experiences are collected.”

Erwin Schroedinger

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No I don’t I suppose events are 100% random.. even though they might appear that way.


To the historic argument.. between Einstein and Bohr..

“Does God play dice.. ?”

I would respond.. Yes.. God plays dice.. but the dice are loaded.


For example.. if aliens.. hovering above our planet.. looked down on London.. they would observe the chaotic behaviour of traffic and people..

Who.. from their point of view.. would appear to be moving completely randomly…

And.. at night.. this seemingly chaotic movement would gradually cease.. and settle down to a more permanent pattern.. until the sun rose.. and then.. there would appear to be chaos again..

That is from an from a alien viewpoint…

However we know.. from our viewpoint.. this chaos has a purpose.. which is driven (idealistically) by intelligence.

Even though this intelligence would not seem to be evidential.. by the observing aliens.. who see only a disorganized motion.

Our own experience tells us.. that the universe.. in general.. has a tendency.. to organize itself intelligently.

My own position.. is one of intelligent evolution.

Rather than blind chance.

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”Mind and intelligence are woven into the fabric of our universe in a way that altogether surpasses our understanding.”

Freeman Dyson

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Do you mean.. by the above..

Someone who is incapable of mature argument..?

Why not try it some time..

You never know you might like it..

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“Instead of proclaiming the ideals, they educe what experience teaches, what the experience of all the centuries has taught, that the millions get no further than mediocrity.”

Kierkegaard

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Last edited by Accelerator on 10 Sep 2008, 5:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Does it need to be?

If the afterlife is a mere concept - logical or otherwise - then that concept gives comfort to a lot of good people who would otherwise feel nothing but despair over their impending deaths or the deaths of loved ones.

If the afterlife is real - in whatever form it may take - then it may be something worth looking forward to, for some people. For others, it may not.

Either way, it is how we behave in this life that really matters.

For everybody.. no.

For some.. yes.

I tend to side with the sceptical..

Question everything.




I enjoy problem solving.

Am I sure of anything.. ?

Well.. not much.

Just some things seem more likely than not..

That's the way I see it




I agree..

It's simply all down to making the right choices..

Putting our heart and mind in gear.

And if we.. sometimes.. do get it wrong..

Apologise.. to clear the air.


For me.. that is religion in a nutshell..

Treat others with respect.

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"I believe that what we are is the sum total of the experiences that we've had; so as we choose experiences with greater integrity, as we choose to behave in a more ethical and generous way, we become more generous, more ethical beings; beings of integrity, loving people; and as you create that in you, you create the life that you have; - the future."

Sharon Stone

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Although the afterlife may be comforting to those who choose to deceive themselves it has been used down through the ages to prevent people from paying strong attention to their current existence and thereby doing something positive about making it better. It is an excuse for the weak to be ineffective and a great help for the elite to keep a firm grip on power they are misusing. And it depreciates the huge value of just being alive which, as an artist and a poet I find extremely important. And it also devalues the great loss of losing someone one values. It is important for me to feel that tragedy in full to appreciate what a valued person meant to me and how great that loss is.

Do you reckon that a massively advanced alien race wouldn't have some idea of complexity theory?



I (almost) agree for once.

Last edited by chever on 10 Sep 2008, 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

And then we come down to what "intelligently" can mean in that context.

I define intelligence as having the abilty to solve problems.

While stupidity is having the ability to create them.

I would see evolution as being intelligently guided.. because the process solves more problems than it creates.

Evolution is the widest sense of the word..

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"In the broadest sense, evolution is merely change, and so is all-pervasive; galaxies, languages, and political systems all evolve. Biological evolution ... is change in the properties of populations of organisms that transcend the lifetime of a single individual. The ontogeny of an individual is not considered evolution; individual organisms do not evolve. The changes in populations that are considered evolutionary are those that are inheritable via the genetic material from one generation to the next. Biological evolution may be slight or substantial; it embraces everything from slight changes in the proportion of different alleles within a population (such as those determining blood types) to the successive alterations that led from the earliest protoorganism to snails, bees, giraffes, and dandelions."

Douglas J. Futuyma in Evolutionary Biology, Sinauer Associates 1986

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If there were no gravity.. for example.. any matter would remain disorganised.

Gravity solves this problem by grouping stuff close together.. causing it to interact..

But I'm too tired to come up with any more examples now.


BTW.. have you got any of your art.. or poems.. on the net..

I would be interested in seeing what is it you write about.. and paint..

I've never been much good at either.

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“If as the Universe was developing, gravity had been any stronger, our universe would have been smaller and everything would have happened more quickly. The average star, for instance, would have existed for only about one year, certainly not enough time for life to develop. If gravity had been any weaker, matter would not have congealed into stars and galaxies at all. In other words, if the strength of gravitation had varied by as little as one part in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, we would not be here to reflect upon the universe.

(Luck??)”

Gravity by Michael Talbot
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I think faith defies logic, if there is an afterlife, it takes a leap of faith to believe in it. If people want to have this little bit of comfort, who are we to decide if its illogical, as an agnostic, I think we have to keep an open mind to all possibilities.

Why should it.. ?

What’s your reasoning here.. ?

Please expand on what you are saying..

You may have caught my interest..

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“Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”

Lewis Carroll


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Because they would have almost certainly tried to model a very complex system like weather and failed by the time they reached the level of technology to travel between stars?

Well there are many phenomena which many put down to soul/spirit, and possibly upon another plane of existence. My thought is that we are already from that side, cross over to here, then go back, this other plane is probably can not be understood with what we know, so it can not be understood by our logic. Just my belife is that we just require our bodies to be alive to tie our souls to this world, or maybe not so with suposed ghost sightings.