White Phosphorus Anyone?

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In my experience, it's only certain middle class liberals round here who use plagiarism, Happeh.

I'm sorry maybe you missed my earlier post that I was engaged in the first Persian Gulf War. I will always consider the lives of our soldiers important. Don't build up a straw man about our troops when they have very little to do with the orders they recieve from the brass at the top.

It was once considered very patriotic to question your leaders.
That's why we have freedom of speech.
Speaking out in protest also seems to be a far more politically significant act in reference to this presidency then voting ever was.

Happeh our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan have more to do with oil then protecting Israel.
Both of these acts have done more to provoke violent muslim reactions then our defense of Israel currently does.

Please don't speak for me. I can fight my own battles. Thank You!
I am also both pro Israel and pro Palestinian.
I am pro life.

At what point will this hater be disciplined? This guy is worse than some of the known anti-Semitic boards I've monitored in the past, if he actually believes this he needs to be institutionalized and it isn't due to AS it's what's called "Paranoid Delusions"!

You mean the humane (although demeaning) interrogation techniques?
Why would Israel want the US to invade Iraq? Israel could nuke Iraq, it has no interest there.
As for the USA and Britain performing terrorist acts and blaming muslims, muslims have a long history of blaming Al Yahudi for everything so it's only natural they'd allege their enemy plays a similar game.
Happeh, you should know that in truth the USA prevents Israel from wiping islam off the map. The IDF could eliminate mecca from the earth in 3 days, it is the second most powerful military in the world.

That is an absolute lie. Even if you believe in the existance of "palestinians" (that are in reality jordanians and egyptians that their countries refuse to accept) any rape of an arab by an IDF service man or woman would result in prison to the serviceperson. The IDF is the most ethical military organization in the world.
"Palestinians" on the other hand have been murdering unarmed innocent Israelis for a long time now, all the while blaming "The Jews."

Last I heard, "muslim" wasn't a race, it's a religion. However, "Jew" is an ethnicity, "Judaism" is the religious practices of the ethnicity.

Machloket

You know what? I got publicly warned for using the word "hater". I guess no one has read your post yet.



Thanks for telling us that you monitor anti Semtic boards. That means you are totally unbiased in your opinions huh?



Sure I believe it. Why should I be institutionalized? Because you don't like what I say?



Sorry, Wrong answer. Israel needed to stop Saddam from paying death benefits to Palestinians. If they attacked Iraq, the Arab world and probably the rest of the world would react. By ordering the USA to do it, Israel can hide behind the USA. No one will attack a country with 1000's of nukes and a cowboy as president. There is an oil pipeline in Iraq going to Israel that Israel has had it's eye on for some time. Israel wants Iraqi property to fulfill it's vision of "greater Israel" Israel is using the bases it now has in Iraq to destabilize Syria, Iran and Turkey.

You really ought to inform yourself more about the world before making denigrating comments to people. Or do you know all that, and you are trying to prevent others from learning it?



And they would love every minute of it as evidenced by your glee in making that claim. They would probably have barbecues and watch on TV as all those innocent people were killed. They would dance and sing as each nuke went off in another Islamic city. Wouldn't you, oh sorry, I mean they?



No it is not. Anyone of you readers who wish to prove to yourself that I am honest and truthful, and that this man is purposefully spreading lies and misinformation as part of his "monitoring anti semtic boards", can go Google the name Mustafa Dirani.

Mustafa Dirani was held in jail by the Israelis. The Israelis sodomized Mr Dirani while he was in jail. THEY ADMITTED IT IN COURT! Mr Dirani now walks with a cane because of the internal damage done by the rapes. I think that any woman should be outraged by this event. They should feel empathy with internal damage from rapes.



More fairytales. The Isrealis murdered a British cameraman. Then refused to charge anyone. Only after 2 years of pressure by the British Government, the family of the man, and international peace organizations, did the Israelis finally even bring the man to court.


Dear sir. Please explain to the people viewing this post, how you consider kicking a woman laying on the ground "the most ethical military organization in the world". Those are IDF soldiers playing soccer with a female peace activist.



You can even see the cameraman in the background running towards the woman as if to say "Hey! Are you crazy?"

Well, Happeh, I don't monitor anti-Semitic boards, and I'm not Jewish, and I'm an atheist, and I still think you are full of insane, anti-Semitic crap.



Happeh, do you know that there are a million Arab Muslims in Israel with full civil and voting rights, and freedom of religion? Hardly racist, is it?

Compare Israel to Jordan, supposedly the most liberal of the Arab states. All Jordan's Jews were driven out of the country after the Israeli War of Independence. Jordan still has a law explicitly prohibiting any Jew from becoming a citizen.
Or compare it to Saudi Arabia, which explicitly prohibits any Palestinian from becoming a citizen. Why? Because to allow Palestinians to become citizens might help end the Israel-Palestine conflict, which would mean the recognition of Israel's right to exist in peace, and the existence of one tiny Jewish state in "Dar-al-Islam" is too much for militant Muslims to bear.

It's only because Israel's military conduct is so morally superior to that of the Palestinians that the useless conflict has dragged on so long. The Palestinians have been offered their own state enough times, but they keep saying no because they don't want to acknowledge Israel's right to exist.

Do you realise that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East? Do you realise that the media in the Arab states are all state-controlled, and that the only outlet most Arab citizens have for their discontent is to blame Israel?

No doubt you will dismiss this as all Zionist propaganda. You seem so paranoid about Zionist propaganda that it makes me wonder if you get your news from Al-Jazeera.

At least people are finally talking about ethical issues.
I agree that the IDF is one of the most ethical militaries in the world.
I support the state of Israel.
With that said, there is still room for Israel to improve their treatment of Palestinians.
However difficult that sometimes seems.

The Palestinians sure have a long ways to go in the ethics department.

That's a huge part of the problem: There is no such thing as a "palestinian"! !! They are displaced Jordanians and Egyptians that their own countries refuse to allow residency.
Think of it this way: What if Mexico decided to disallow illegal immigrants to return to Mexico, while still allowing them to pour over the border. The government would be forced to set up camps for them, and then people would be screaming about their treatment.
It's essentially the same situation in Israel. When the Independance War broke out (CE 1948), arab authorities told other arabs to leave their homes, and get behind the lines so they could "Drive the Jews into the sea!" Except they failed. A few hundred thousand arabs (mainly nomadic migrant workers that lived in tents) were left on the arab side of the lines. The arabs that hed legitimate residency in Israel were allowed to return home and become Israeli citizens.
Then the UN got involved in the "refugee crisis" although many people's living conditions were essentially the same as prior to the war. A secure border was established between Israel and Jordan, while the UN set up "refugee camps" on the Jordanian and Egyptian sides. Egypt and Jordan both refused to allow their citizens to leave the area, while hundreds of thousands of arabs streamed into the area for the free UN food and shelter. Nearly 20 years later the soviets, in a cold war program, created the "palestinian liberation organization" to annoy the US. While the USSR was the first country to recognize Israel, the US was a bit more friendly by way of not being officially anti-Semitic.
Now, nearly 60 years after the initial conflict, there are millions of arab "refugees" living in UN camps. While there were 2 Jews displaced from islamic countries for every 1 arab displaced, the Jews were taken into Israel and integrated into society while the arabs refuse to do any real assistance for their "palestinian" brothers. The arabs still hold their dream to "Drive the Jews into the sea" and largely refuse to recognize Israel.
So I ask, who is morally wrong?

Machloket

And using civilian airliners to attack our soil is fair? Using cars blow up convoys and patrols is fair? STRAPPING YOUNG PEOPLE WITH EXPLOSIVES to have them DETONATE THEMSELVES in civilian populations is fair?
Its not a matter of IF its a matter of WHEN those methods are employed on OUR soil too. I wonder how many people will be worried about what is fair when an extremeist steps into one of our schools or shopping centers with several pounds of C-4 belted to his or her body. London already saw the effects of a few backpack bombers. And in the US we have seen the effects of a few car bombs as well.



Muslim extremeists already hated Americans and other members of the free and democratic world.
And Im sure that these folks overthere DO have the same feelings and concerns for their families as I do for mine. that I shant argue. But no one ever said war was easy. I think it was Gen. Robert E. Lee that said "it is good that war is hell, otherwise we might grow too fond of it". He was speaking of the armies, but his statement that "War is hell" is true. We, as civilians, want to say that everything that is done on the battlefield is ethical. But we as civilians are not on that battlefield making the decisions that decide if our troops go home to hug their famlies or if they go home to be buried by them. Our nature is to see these reports, be appaled by them, and to sut in our warm ans safe homes judging a world that the majority of us no not. I dare say that none of us are qualified to make combat decisions (except those of us that have military experience). It might have been bad intel that got us into the war, or it might be that we DONT know where that deadly stuff is now (which is a more frighting prospect alltoegther). Im not an intel op, so I can not judge that aspect. I do know this: WMD were used on the Kurds, and Iraq HAD the ability to make these WMD. (and yes technically most civilized nations have the ability, its those that use them against a civilian population that are a threat)
*sigh* we can go on an on about the war. Its a catch 22 now. We pull out today, the new government fails and its back to square one or worse. We stay, more people on both sides have to perish inorder to maintain the status quo. Must be why war IS hell.....

AND HAPPEH, Israel had one of the best intel agencies in the business, as well as one of the best military forces on the PLANET. If they had wanted to they could have started up this mess on their very own. They have been playing the game aginst extremests for decades. The US has not. I, for one WELCOME their expertese and resources in the Middle East. Must be why they are an ally of most of the FREE WORLD...
War is hell, happeh. I respect your opinion that we do not need to be over there. But I think that the anti-sematic attitude is unnessassary. You and I are not policy makers, but reapers of the freedoms that those policies protect.

As others on this board have suggested, try typing "happeh" into google.
The guy is a fruitcake.

Well why don't you say the rest of it? That on my first day here, you reported me to the mods because you didn't like what I said? And then I reported you for racism?

So your opinion above is totally unbiased isn't it?

Let's see. Should I mimic Klytus's crybaby behavior and report him to the mods for calling me a fruitcake? I am justified. He reported me to the mods.

No. I am an adult. I don't need to run to mommy to punish Klytus. I will just remind people from now until eternity that, if you upset Klytus, he will run to mommy and get you in trouble.

Happeh, I didn't report you to the mods. This is just more paranoia on your part. You can ask them if you like.
I have never in my life reported anyone to the moderators on any message board or in any internet chat room.
Feel free to report me to the mods though. I'm not fussed.

would people take their personal bickering somewhere else, please.

thank you.

Vivi
(as Mod)

And perhaps certain working class conservatives around here need to rethink their ideas.

I seriously don't understand how anyone can look at that picture of soldiers beating up that female civilian and say that it is right and that we should be proud of the job US/Israeli armed forces are doing.

Someone on this thread suggested that the lives of our troops are more important than the lives of civilians on the battlefield.

I think the opposite. Our troops had a choice whether they wanted to join the army. They know that part of their job carries the risk of death, and they went along with that. Therefore, if they die in war, then they shouldn't complain about it because that was their choice.

However, Iraqi civilians have no choice!! These foreign soldiers are here whether they like it or not. They have no weapons, and are likely to be killed just because the military are too f*****g lazy to use "ethical" weapons to minimize casualties. Their lives should be saved above the lives of the soldiers because they had no choice - most of them are women and kids anyway.

There are too many Muslim-haters around here who think that the only good Muslim is a dead one, be it man, woman, or child. Plus of course extra points for those that deface the Qu'ran or shoot a picture of Allah. That is seriously what our armed forces think of them - they are not human beings, but rather humanoid monkeys that can be shot at will.

Ladysmokeeater, suicide bombers feed off of feelings of oppression by a much more powerful and stronger agressor. Muslim extremists have the right, coupled with significant evidence to conclude that the US is an opressive force who does not respect their culture, and is thus an unwelcome presence in their lands.

I hoped that people would be able to speak openly about the role of ethics in military conflict.
I would have loved for that to be the case.
I now feel that my expectations were unrealistic.

I truly wish that the politics of greed could be transformed into a discussion about whats best for the world. Until that happens, I'm out.