Criticize Islam!

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monty
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27 Sep 2008, 2:13 pm

LostInEmulation wrote:

What really irks me is the so-called 'islamic banking'. It sounds so horribly crazy and despite all the hoops that have to be jumped through might still be in violation of the Islam!

Of course, but that is human nature - there can be legalism that defies the spirit of the law. Look at the Sabbath laws in Israel and the idea of Sabbatical. The original idea was to provide rest and regeneration every seven days (and every 7 years), and this extended to the farm fields. This was like a form of crop rotation, where the moisture and fertility could rebuild. Today, many Jews 'observe' the sabbatical by 'selling' their farm fields to a non-Jew or non-observant Jew for one year instead of allowing it to remain fallow as was commanded. They think that since the title was transferred, they don't have to let the field lie fallow - they can Enron their way around the principle.

claire-333
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27 Sep 2008, 2:34 pm

z0rp wrote:

Anyhow those who have criticisms to post, go ahead as that's the point of this thread.

No, thanks. :wink:

crackedpleasures
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27 Sep 2008, 2:46 pm

I am atheist but I adore Islamic arts. I even attended an Arabesque concert yesterday night. I adore visiting Mosques, listening to Islamic chants, Arab arts in general. I also have the Quran at home and while being not religious, I do think Islam is the religion that somewhat makes more sense than the others to me personally. I respect anyones believes however.

I despite the islamophobia going on in Europe and the far right propaganda using Muslims as new scapegoats. If I realise in my native country an islamophobic party gets 20 percent of votes, I feel deep shame. I have lived in Turkey and although this is not the typical muslim society (Istanbul definitely istn, and that is where I lived) I felt more welcome than in any of the other 5 countries I resided in.

If anyone wants to bash Islam, fine, but I will stand up against any irrational comments against Islam. I am sick and tired of the racist abuse Muslims are getting here in Europe and have often gone into debates in political forums to defend Muslims whenever some idiot is trying to provocate and spread messages of hatred against Muslims.

I am atheist but have a strong respect for Islam. I would love to emigrate back to the Middle East, only working permits stop me right now but I hope to fix that issue in the not very distant future and find my way back eastward.

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Khan_Sama
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27 Sep 2008, 6:43 pm

Mashallah, crackedpleasures!

Which country in the middle east do you plan to return to? ^^

Orwell
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27 Sep 2008, 6:55 pm

Greyhound wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Attacking someone's beliefs with vitriolic hatred...

There was no vitriolic hatred in z0rp's post he/she was merely stating some logical reasons why Islam isn't the religion for them. If anyone is to be banned from WP for posting their views against (or for) a religion, then let's keep it fair and equal please and don't vary the punishment according to the religion being spoken of otherwise that in itself is offensive.

No, sorry if I communicated poorly, but that's not what I meant. It was obvious that z0rp had no hatred towards Islam, and I pointed that out as a reason for why he should not and will not be banned. But people in the past have been banned for hateful comments towards Islam, and I agree that such behavior should not be tolerated- however, I am somewhat disappointed in the hypocrisy that hatred is permissible towards some groups but not others.

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Mudboy
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27 Sep 2008, 7:44 pm

This belief system has not changed since it began. It does not need to be attacked, but instead, simply exposed. History and current events speak for themselves.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

DevilInPgh
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27 Sep 2008, 10:05 pm

monty wrote:

LostInEmulation wrote:

What really irks me is the so-called 'islamic banking'. It sounds so horribly crazy and despite all the hoops that have to be jumped through might still be in violation of the Islam!

That's because of the world of modern economics. Taking a true Shmitah (sabbatical) year (which, btw, comes to an end Monday night. I wonder how the etrog sales for Sukkot (which is in 2 1/2 weeks) work for the year following the Shmitah) can wreak havoc on the Israeli economy. Thus, the "heter mechirah", which the rabbis of the early 20th century derived from Talmudic rulings (namely, the Minhag Yerushalayim, in which land owned by gentiles is considered to be exempt from the Shmitah year). By this exemption, a Jew who owns a farm temporarily sells it to a gentile (usually a Druze, as they consider themselves to be loyal citizens and thus not dangerous) for the Shmitah year. It's a matter of controversy between the non-Zionist/anti-Zionist Charedim and Zionists who are observant (this group includes National Religious Charedim ("Chardalim"), Modern Orthodox Jews, and Lubavitchers (who, while not accepting the current incarnation of Israel as the "flowering of our redemption", support the State nonetheless)).

Macbeth
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27 Sep 2008, 10:09 pm

crackedpleasures wrote:

Maybe its just semantics.. but basing muslims isn't racist, because it isnt a race. Its a religion. I suspect the only religions where racism and religionism are the same is judaism, and perhaps Greek orthodox?

Also.. Islamophobia is merely a buzzword created because it sounds snappy and looks good in print. A great many cases against Islam I have seen have been anything but irrational and phobic, but instead well thought out and researched.

Overall, Islam appears to have some flaws which.. intentional as part of the religion or not.. have been and are being misunderstood, misinterpreted, and generally exploited by certain frothing lunatic a***holes. Thats not irrational or phobic. It just IS.

Though, just to put a balance to things: A genuine quote from a gentleman of Sikh extraction, on observing a bombing attributed to muslims, whilst speaking to a white anglo-saxon with nationalistic and right-wing tendencies:

"f*****g muslims. I tell my sons.. I raise them right.. they know what to do with f*****g muslims. I raise my sons to kill f*****g muslims. Then they come for you. you mark me.But first, they kill all the f*****g muslims."

Unnerving. Religious intolerance is a cross-cultural thing indeed.

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oscuria
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27 Sep 2008, 11:34 pm

z0rp wrote:

Many Muslims think the fact that the Qu'ran has less contradictions than the Bible makes it more reliable. For the record, the Bible was apparently written by over 40 people while the Qu'ran was written by one person. One person versus forty is going to show a large decrease in contradictions, that's common sense. And the main thing I find crazy about Islam is the Qu'ran. That has got to be among the most violent books ever written. And beyond that, you want to say Islam is the religion of peace? "When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives." -- Holy Qu'ran, Sura xlvii.4. Strike my head off? That's very peaceful. Then I don't even need to go on about the sexism as everyone knows where the Qu'ran stands on that issue.

Anyhow those who have criticisms to post, go ahead as that's the point of this thread.

I hope you don't use similar references to criticize Christianity or other religions because your sources are horrible.

Now...I criticize pseudo spirituality in Islam: the ones who declare that it is not muslim like to wear a hijab, the ones who believe that music or playing music is a sin, the ones who believe that dating or marrying a non-muslim is against islam, the ones who cannot say God but instead say Allah, the ones who are zombies and dare not think for themselves. I really dislike the latter part.

"I do this because it is a part of our religion"
Really, where is it in the Qur'an?
"It is a part of our Islamic tradition!"
Where is it in the Qur'An.
"ALLAH AND THE PROPHET (SAW) HAS MANDATED IT FOR US!"
:roll:

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Khan_Sama
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27 Sep 2008, 11:49 pm

oscuria, I agree with you. You're right. I can't stand such people as well.

z0rp
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28 Sep 2008, 12:20 am

oscuria wrote:

z0rp wrote:

My sources are horrible? And regarding the music bit, I've only heard that certain muslims have a problem with women listening to music, as with many rights.

Hurricane_Delta
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28 Sep 2008, 12:47 am

crackedpleasures wrote:

Hey, if anyone bashes Islam here, I'll step in too. My religious views have been shaped by both Christianity and Islam, and I won't take crap against either of them.

skafather84
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28 Sep 2008, 12:50 am

crackedpleasures wrote:

I despite the islamophobia going on in Europe and the far right propaganda using Muslims as new scapegoats. If I realise in my native country an islamophobic party gets 20 percent of votes, I feel deep shame. I have lived in Turkey and although this is not the typical muslim society (Istanbul definitely istn, and that is where I lived) I felt more welcome than in any of the other 5 countries I resided in.

so europe hates both muslims AND jews now? man...they just want it all when it comes to the hate department, eh?

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oscuria
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28 Sep 2008, 1:22 am

Khan_Sama wrote:

oscuria, I agree with you. You're right. I can't stand such people as well.

Believe you me when I say that I admire Islam (namely sufism--which is polemical in some islamic circles i know), especially in its so-called "golden period". I haven't personally met as many thick-headed muslims and the one I'm good friends with is very outgoing despite her conservative look (ie hijab). Living in the states I don't expect to meet many of the hardliners or religious non-"free-thinkers" (Yes, there is such a thing). After all, we wouldn't want another Qutb :lmao:

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skafather84
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28 Sep 2008, 1:38 am

oscuria wrote:

After all, we wouldn't want another Qutb :lmao:

him and amin al husseini both.

disgusting figures not nearly covered enough in history.

Khan_Sama
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28 Sep 2008, 8:19 am

oscuria wrote:

Khan_Sama wrote:

oscuria, I agree with you. You're right. I can't stand such people as well.

That's nice. ^^

It's good that you can differnetiate between Muslims and the wackos.

I live in a city with 3,300,000 Muslims. Till date, not one extremist do I know over here. Last week, a New Zealand convert living in Indonesia added me on facebook, and going through his posts in the groups he invited me into, he's ready to burn down whore houses and wine shops. :roll:

Which Qutb are you talking about? Is is one of the men named Qutb? Do you mean the term for Sufi saints? Or the umbrella term for all the Islamic books?

skafather84 wrote:

oscuria wrote:

After all, we wouldn't want another Qutb :lmao:

him and amin al husseini both.

disgusting figures not nearly covered enough in history.

I agree.

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