Dr Fredrick Toben's arrest should alarm us all

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chever
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11 Oct 2008, 10:28 am

How am I supposed to know they're rhetorical?

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slowmutant
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11 Oct 2008, 10:29 am

'Cause you're a genius.

chever
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11 Oct 2008, 10:31 am

No I'm not

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slowmutant
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11 Oct 2008, 10:34 am

No? You never miss a chance to brag about how incredibly brilliant you are.

spudnik
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11 Oct 2008, 12:23 pm

This reminds me of Ernst Zündel case, which Canada had spent years trying to extradite back to Germany. He also was a Holocaust denier, who always abused the privilege of free speech, and twisted it to his own ends. Free speech is great until it abused in this way, such as perpetrating lies against another group, race, or religion. I would beware of anyone who spouts hatred, with the Doctor designation in front of their name, what kind of Doctor would that be? Fredrick Toben should be arrested and locked away, with his foul mouth stapled shut.

ToadOfSteel
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11 Oct 2008, 12:50 pm

slowmutant wrote:

DentArthurDent wrote:

Many people agree that there should be some kind of 'harm principle' applied to freedom of speech. Here in Australia some states have anti vilification laws making illegal to vilivfy on the basis of race and sexuality. Personally I think this is a good idea.

I do agree that this issue requires careful consideration. Holocaust deniers are fairly clear cut, and should be stopped.

They should. For all Jewish people living and dead. For the world.

Holocaust-denying is at best nothing but thinly-veiled hate-speech, and at worst it is Nazi propaganda. If someone can legally deny the Holocaust today, what might he say tomorrow?

While I agree with Holocaust denial being hate-speech, it should still be protected.

Seriously, people need to stop being p*****s about words... It's thanks to such people that I can't say f**k on national television, soon we will not be able to complain about national government because speaking out against the government will be banned if any part of free speech is banned...

It's either all free, or none of it is...

chever
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11 Oct 2008, 12:51 pm

slowmutant wrote:

No? You never miss a chance to brag about how incredibly brilliant you are.

I brag about what I achieve, not what I am

Those are two entirely different things, bunghole

BTW

Q: "Did you hear about the gay German?"
A: "Ate off Hitler!"

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Cyanide
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11 Oct 2008, 1:01 pm

slowmutant wrote:

DentArthurDent wrote:

Get real. Do you really feel threatened by people denying the Holocaust? 99.9% of people agree that it happened, and 99.9% of those 99.9% don't look like they'll budge. I think the bigger threat is people like you who want to get rid of freedom of speech! But, since I do believe in freedom of speech, I do think you have a right to say that the government should throw us in prison for our thoughts, even though your ideas are completely ridiculous :wink:

But I challenge anyone posting on this topic to give me a good reason why people should be throwin in prison for denying the holocaust, or anything else you might deem "offensive." What if someone denied that the Civil War or the Crusades happened? Should they be thrown in prison too?

skafather84
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11 Oct 2008, 1:22 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:

Many people agree that there should be some kind of 'harm principle' applied to freedom of speech.

and those people are a bunch of flaming fa***t slits who have nothing better to do than to get offended at words rather than do something when someone actually says something stupid and hateful like the holocaust deniers. bring up proof of the holocaust. challenge the denial's intellectual validity. don't make some idiotic f*****g law about it.

/freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of only popular speech

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slowmutant
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11 Oct 2008, 1:23 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

DentArthurDent wrote:

This is not a black-and-white issue. Freedom of speech can't be discussed in absolutes.

skafather84
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11 Oct 2008, 1:29 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:

While I agree with Holocaust denial being hate-speech, it should still be protected.

how is it hate speech?

it's like challenging the validity of the gulf of tonkin incident. it doesn't necessarily have to be that the person hates the jews. i've seen arguments before where idiots can't do their math right and say that it would be impossible to incinerate so many jews in such a short period of time.

now here's a little intellectual exercise for you....what if empirical evidence were presented that proved that the holocaust didn't have nearly the scope as claimed? would you even start to be willing to change what you know as reality...or would you simply bark such evidence down as hate speech and ignore it?

gulf of tonkin is proof that just because events are claimed doesn't mean they actually happen or at least not necessarily as reported and initially recorded in history books. i'd actually dare to say that such deniers just provide an excellent way to reaffirm history by going through the numbers, going through the records and proving it again and again.

Awesomelyglorious
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11 Oct 2008, 1:30 pm

All notions of rights are by nature are black and white. If we accept the notion that individuals have a sovereignty over themselves, or have rights, then we must take certain issues to be relatively black and white.

Btw, I think the whole exchange of slowmutant and chever was incredibly funny.

chever
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11 Oct 2008, 1:32 pm

HAY GICE WUTS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A JEW AND A PIZZA? ANY 1? ANY 1?

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skafather84
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11 Oct 2008, 1:33 pm

chever wrote:

HAY GICE WUTS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A JEW AND A PIZZA? ANY 1? ANY 1?

pizzas are allowed to have ham on them when they go in the oven?

chever
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11 Oct 2008, 1:37 pm

A: "A pizza doesn't scream when you put it in the oven."

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slowmutant
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11 Oct 2008, 1:42 pm

skafather84 wrote:

ToadOfSteel wrote:

While I agree with Holocaust denial being hate-speech, it should still be protected.

I think I see your point but your post here is really inflammatory. And your use of the word "fa***t?" Who do you think you are?

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