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Fraya
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13 Dec 2008, 1:52 pm

skafather84 wrote:

fraya, you may want to check again, i expounded a little further on the idea.

Yeah I kind of morphed my own line of thought after reading your addition. Particularly [edit2].

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skafather84
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13 Dec 2008, 1:55 pm

Fraya wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Haliphron wrote:

Fraya wrote:

I find it sad (and scary) that religion has become so prevalent people have lost the ability to find purpose without it.

Maybe its time to place severe restrictions on religion, if not BANNING it all together.

the last few studies i've seen said something along the lines of that not everyone is born with a moral compass and religion fills a need there for those people...but so does the law and i have to wonder if maybe the act of having your life defined for you and having your morality defined for you is how people are losing their ability to develop these areas of their brains on their own.

Interesting hypothesis.

Perhaps those who are not born with a moral compass are the sociopaths (who make up ~4% of the population). If it wasn't for religion perhaps more of them would be treatable since they wouldn't blend in so nicely.

[edit] They might actually ask why they should or shouldn't do things rather than having a ready made instruction manual to follow even though they don't understand it.

[edit2] Or perhaps sociopathy isn't really that common it's just that many people follow religion and are afraid to question it so never fully develop their own moral compass.

i think i'm leaning more toward edit 2. but that's just because i tend to see a trend throughout most of society where people just don't like to think about anything....basically everyone is falling deeper and deeper into mental laziness and never looking beyond what they're told and not keeping their minds sharp.

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Fraya
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13 Dec 2008, 1:57 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Fraya wrote:

[edit2] Or perhaps sociopathy isn't really that common it's just that many people follow religion and are afraid to question it so never fully develop their own moral compass.

So perhaps a trap where they are dictated their morality so see violating that morality as a minor affront to their faith and therefore less severe than the affront to humanity it truly is?

[edit] "God will forgive you for anything" and all that.

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skafather84
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13 Dec 2008, 2:09 pm

Fraya wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Fraya wrote:

[edit2] Or perhaps sociopathy isn't really that common it's just that many people follow religion and are afraid to question it so never fully develop their own moral compass.

the majority of religion is a voluntary oligarchy. creating any kind of dependence on that oligarchy helps them to maintain their power. why do you think gay marriage and stem cell research and cloning are such hot button topics? it's those people wanting to maintain a control over people by telling them what to think on such issues. the catholic church just released a new set of moralities for the new technology including that use of stem cells is wrong.

Aspie_Chav
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13 Dec 2008, 2:22 pm

Whatever the law does, they must remember that they loved their child.

Fraya
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13 Dec 2008, 2:29 pm

Aspie_Chav wrote:

Whatever the law does, they must remember that they loved their child.

Or they didn't and used faith healing as an excuse to let it die.

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Aspie_Chav
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13 Dec 2008, 5:16 pm

Fraya wrote:

Aspie_Chav wrote:

Whatever the law does, they must remember that they loved their child.

Or they didn't and used faith healing as an excuse to let it die.

It is generally instinctual to take care of young, some holds true of other animals in nature. One has to judge if the woman is a fit mother and has any integrity or if her religion encourages her to hate her young.

Fraya
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13 Dec 2008, 5:23 pm

Aspie_Chav wrote:

Fraya wrote:

Aspie_Chav wrote:

Whatever the law does, they must remember that they loved their child.

Or they didn't and used faith healing as an excuse to let it die.

Various other factors can serve to influence normally good people to commit infanticide such as postpartum depression, aversion to responsibility, selfishness and/or emotional immaturity, mental disorders, fear, sociological influence, economic factors, peer pressure, coercion, etc.

It's not as black and white as "Only evil people kill their children. If she wasn't evil she must not have done it.".

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Last edited by Fraya on 13 Dec 2008, 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vexcalibur
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13 Dec 2008, 5:24 pm

a) This is not relevant. I believe in a God and I wouldn't do something as stupid as this. People have used thousands of arguments to do stupid stuff, and to kill as well, religion happens to be one of them. Peace is another, and yes, freedom, love, and so many things, I guess we could be act smartass and try to ban anything that could make people do stupid things...
b) Manslaughter is freaking exaggerated of a charge. Parental Negligence or something like that sounds more like it.

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Last edited by Vexcalibur on 13 Dec 2008, 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

richardbenson
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13 Dec 2008, 5:28 pm

i think this is foolish, a 100 years ago this wouldnt be news as people were doing faith healings all the time probably. too bad i guess, just another example of why religion needs to be exterminated

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Vexcalibur
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13 Dec 2008, 5:34 pm

richardbenson wrote:

religion needs to be exterminated

Congrats, you are as intolerant as your fellow Christian/Muslim moron who thinks his way to see the universe is the only correct way and the rest must screw up.
...

Quote:

An appeal to fear (argumentum in terrorem), and nothing more. Logical fallacies ftl.

argumentum ad logicam attacks again!

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Fraya
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13 Dec 2008, 5:39 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

richardbenson wrote:

religion needs to be exterminated

Congrats, you are as intolerant as your fellow Christian/Muslim moron who thinks his way to see the universe is the only correct way and the rest must screw up.
...

Quote:

An appeal to fear (argumentum in terrorem), and nothing more. Logical fallacies ftl.

argumentum ad logicam attacks again!

Perhaps he was a bit out of line saying it needed to be exterminated but the lack of religious belief has never been cited as the cause of things like this so there is room for arguing without religion this child would likely still be alive.

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One pill makes you larger
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Vexcalibur
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13 Dec 2008, 5:54 pm

Fraya wrote:

Sure. The child would still be alive. Or who knows? Maybe those guys managed to meet and marry because of Religion and therefore without religion the kid wouldn't exist. Then again is this kid's life that important? The only guys that will miss him are the parents that they are trying to send to jail...

Religion caused a death! Big deal... I guess if you were stupid enough to toss your screen to a bathtub and it killed your baby, then it was a good idea to exterminate all bathtubs, computer screens or babies in order to prevent further deaths...

It's rather incredible people are making such a fuss over this as a way to justify their anti-theist obsessions, when things like the crusades and the inquisition caused a lot more deaths and it wasn't just an accident like this one...

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Fraya
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13 Dec 2008, 6:00 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

Fraya wrote:

Uh pointing out that the crusades were worse doesn't really help your argument that religion is justified.

In any case as for the child we can't know whether or not he would exist without religion but we do know that he did exist and religion killed him.

As for the bathtub and monitor argument that's just nonsense. The belief that it was a good idea to do that killed the baby in the same way the belief that prayer would heal the child killed this one. In both instances the belief should not be encouraged and society would be better if no one ascribed to it.

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Last edited by Fraya on 13 Dec 2008, 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

richardbenson
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13 Dec 2008, 6:03 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

richardbenson wrote:

religion needs to be exterminated

Congrats, you are as intolerant as your fellow Christian/Muslim moron who thinks his way to see the universe is the only correct way and the rest must screw up.

oh go cry about it. frankly i dont believe atheism has killed anyone, and religion has. hmm, lets think about this

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Vexcalibur
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13 Dec 2008, 6:48 pm

richardbenson wrote:

Vexcalibur wrote:

richardbenson wrote:

religion needs to be exterminated

Congrats, you are as intolerant as your fellow Christian/Muslim moron who thinks his way to see the universe is the only correct way and the rest must screw up.

oh go cry about it. frankly i dont believe atheism has killed anyone, and religion has. hmm, lets think about this

I don't think that's relevant at all. It is a little sickening when alleged atheists claim a moral high ground for how religions are intolerant while in web forums they feel so freaking obsessed against theists. You may ignore this issue if you wish.

Edit: Regarding your question, atheism has not killed anyone, it is in theory not a belief or an ideology, but I don't mind atheism at all. When you say "Religion must be exterminated" that's not atheism anymore, you are creating an ideology, and one that's as silly as the one that led the crusades. A lot of people were killed because they had a religion when their governments thought their religion was a dangerous belief to their empire/revolution/whatever. That's right, they wanted to exterminate religion because they considered it dangerous....

Quote:

As for the bathtub and monitor argument that's just nonsense. The belief that it was a good idea to do that killed the baby in the same way the belief that prayer would heal the child killed this one. In both instances the belief should not be encouraged and society would be better if no one ascribed to it.

Using a belief in a stupid way thus causing a stupid death is no different to using an object in a stupid way and causing a stupid death. If you want a better example, there's is a scientific fact plastic can isolate you from electricity, so Bob takes this thin plastic cover and uses a 100000K Watts because it would protect him from electricity and dies roosted. Let's ban the belief plastic is a non-conductor...

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