Thoughts on Gaza War
02 Jan 2009, 2:09 pm
Indeed and you expect your government not to do wrong in the name of your nation and bring hatred upon you and your fellow citizens through their actions.
We (the British and American people) sat and watched as our governments LIED AGAIN AND AGAIN, using fabricated 'intelligence' (with Israeli colaboration BTW) in order to wage an illegal war and occupation of Iraq. This was an action that has brought widespread and irrevocable hatred and mistrust upon our nations. Those bastards that represent us told a bare face lie to the world and to us, this was an indefensible action.
_________________
The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power, because they control the minds of the masses - Malcom X
02 Jan 2009, 2:26 pm
Having just watched a very obviously anti-israeli biased news report, I noted a couple of factors that I find deeply interesting.
Israeli air-strikes are being heralded by warning rockets precision hit on Hamas-related targets. The one I witnessed resulted in two anxious crowds at either end of a city street.. waiting pensively for the strike. Watching as spectators. The missile then struck.. exactly on the marked target.. a housing block., which was duly demolished. TV cameras were initially prevented from entering the street by a man with a plank. When they were let in, it was to film the "rescue" of three infants, alive and unwell, from a building next door.
So..1) The air-strikes are surgical, spot on aimed, and pre-warned. Hardly indiscriminate, or the random shelling of Hamas. So surgical people STAY TO WATCH. They even seem to have worked out the minimum safe distance.
2) In this particular case.. that whole baby thing just looks inherently dodgy. That everyone eles has time to get away, but someone "forgets" their babies.. three of them, which is quite a large number of newborns (and they were very very young) to find in one place, all of them unharmed. Miraculous almost, especially given the cameras delaying.....
Who exactly is committing terrorist acts here? Unheralded random shelling, without warning or target, or surgically precise airstrikes on very specific targets with what appears to be a good ten minutes worth of warning first....?
_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
02 Jan 2009, 2:29 pm
Macbeth wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Consider this: Wherever your home nation is, think of a neighbouring nation. Now consider you are getting shelled on a daily and very unpredictable basis FOR YEARS, by a terrorist group supported by that nation... What would you expect your government to do? What would you want to happen? What do you think the rest of the world would think?
What some of the westerners are not comprehending ,or refusing to comprehend, that terrorism didn't came out of nothing, it's a reaction , a bad one , but it's a reaction against a bad action.
In life there's always an action and a reaction to this action ,a reaction can be reaction to some and an action to others.
Zionism was a reaction against the European "antisemitism" but stealing the lands of "Palestine" from the Arabs who were living there was an action against the Arab Inhabitants there.
Zionist Terrorist organizations such as Lehi and Irgun were Zionist terrorist organizations who did crimes against British authorities as a reaction against UK decisions.
Hamas' terrorism was a reaction against the long Israeli siege on Gaza, the Hamas' victory in election is a reaction against Israeli aggression and Fatah's financial corruption.
The birth of Hezbollah and its easy interrelation in the Lebanese Shiite community is a reaction against the Israel occupation.
What you consider terrorists to you are freedom fighters to them and what YOU consider heroes are terrorists to them.
Btw, the Israeli people also love their terrorists:
Quote:
Three Jewish militants were freed today after serving less than seven years for killing three Arabs and maiming two Palestinian mayors in car bombings. They were greeted as heroes by fellow Jewish settlers.
Published: December 27, 1990
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A966958260
Palestinian's terrorism is a reaction against your so old terrorism. It's that simple.
You are not much better, then stop acting as if you have a halo over your heads.
I was thinking in terms of personal reaction. At a base level, indiscriminate terror acts kill the innocent. Nothing more, nothing less. Individuals who are just living their lives like the rest of us, brought to a flaming and painful death over political and ideological machinations that can in theory be dated to thousands of years before their birth. By accident of birth alone, people are pushed into these futile wars as victims. What exactly do people require their sovereign government to do when placed in such a situation? For myself, I am a subject of the United Kingdom. As part of my birthright and as a due for payment of taxes etc, I consider that my government should be there to protect me against aggression by others of foreign extraction. I expect that the military that we all fund as civilians is there primarily (these days) to protect us. If splinter groups set up rocket bases in southern France (Brittany, perhaps) to shell my homeland, I would expect nothing less than our defence by our military forces. It is not an unreasonable thing to ask of any government.. the protection of its citizens. Whether my government dug the hole in the first place or not, I expect them to prevent my demise because of it.
Very true, but the only difference that your UK government didn't stole French lands and made British settlements there or setting a siege around France, no?
02 Jan 2009, 2:36 pm
Macbeth wrote:
Having just watched a very obviously anti-israeli biased news report, I noted a couple of factors that I find deeply interesting.
Israeli air-strikes are being heralded by warning rockets precision hit on Hamas-related targets. The one I witnessed resulted in two anxious crowds at either end of a city street.. waiting pensively for the strike. Watching as spectators. The missile then struck.. exactly on the marked target.. a housing block., which was duly demolished. TV cameras were initially prevented from entering the street by a man with a plank. When they were let in, it was to film the "rescue" of three infants, alive and unwell, from a building next door.
So..1) The air-strikes are surgical, spot on aimed, and pre-warned. Hardly indiscriminate, or the random shelling of Hamas. So surgical people STAY TO WATCH. They even seem to have worked out the minimum safe distance.
2) In this particular case.. that whole baby thing just looks inherently dodgy. That everyone eles has time to get away, but someone "forgets" their babies.. three of them, which is quite a large number of newborns (and they were very very young) to find in one place, all of them unharmed. Miraculous almost, especially given the cameras delaying.....
Who exactly is committing terrorist acts here? Unheralded random shelling, without warning or target, or surgically precise airstrikes on very specific targets with what appears to be a good ten minutes worth of warning first....?
Israeli air-strikes are being heralded by warning rockets precision hit on Hamas-related targets. The one I witnessed resulted in two anxious crowds at either end of a city street.. waiting pensively for the strike. Watching as spectators. The missile then struck.. exactly on the marked target.. a housing block., which was duly demolished. TV cameras were initially prevented from entering the street by a man with a plank. When they were let in, it was to film the "rescue" of three infants, alive and unwell, from a building next door.
So..1) The air-strikes are surgical, spot on aimed, and pre-warned. Hardly indiscriminate, or the random shelling of Hamas. So surgical people STAY TO WATCH. They even seem to have worked out the minimum safe distance.
2) In this particular case.. that whole baby thing just looks inherently dodgy. That everyone eles has time to get away, but someone "forgets" their babies.. three of them, which is quite a large number of newborns (and they were very very young) to find in one place, all of them unharmed. Miraculous almost, especially given the cameras delaying.....
Who exactly is committing terrorist acts here? Unheralded random shelling, without warning or target, or surgically precise airstrikes on very specific targets with what appears to be a good ten minutes worth of warning first....?
Are you serious?
Weird...during the 2006 July war I never recall watching an Israeli Jet fighter pointing me to a some specific building and telling me: "yooohoo! watch out civilian, I am bombing this one now after 7 min, take out the children!".
Damn, my aspiness is even preventing me to read jetbody's language.
02 Jan 2009, 2:40 pm
LePetitPrince wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
I was thinking in terms of personal reaction. At a base level, indiscriminate terror acts kill the innocent. Nothing more, nothing less. Individuals who are just living their lives like the rest of us, brought to a flaming and painful death over political and ideological machinations that can in theory be dated to thousands of years before their birth. By accident of birth alone, people are pushed into these futile wars as victims. What exactly do people require their sovereign government to do when placed in such a situation? For myself, I am a subject of the United Kingdom. As part of my birthright and as a due for payment of taxes etc, I consider that my government should be there to protect me against aggression by others of foreign extraction. I expect that the military that we all fund as civilians is there primarily (these days) to protect us. If splinter groups set up rocket bases in southern France (Brittany, perhaps) to shell my homeland, I would expect nothing less than our defence by our military forces. It is not an unreasonable thing to ask of any government.. the protection of its citizens. Whether my government dug the hole in the first place or not, I expect them to prevent my demise because of it.
Very true, but the only difference that your UK government didn't stole French lands and made British settlements there or setting a siege around France, no?
Actually, there was a great deal of dispute over sovereignty of areas of France, including Normandy and Brittany. The British crown has made claim to areas of France before, and in much the same fashion, William The Bastard was not merely an invader, but a claimant to the English Crown. We had hundreds of years of war over it.. including the official "Hundred Years War". The only difference is the technology of the conflicts, rather than the general events.
_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
02 Jan 2009, 2:40 pm
How many Israelis have been killed by this Hamas bombardment, 4? You do realise you are talking about basically fireworks against full blown missiles, think of the blast radious of these things compared to an RPG type projectile.
_________________
The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power, because they control the minds of the masses - Malcom X
02 Jan 2009, 2:51 pm
LePetitPrince wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Having just watched a very obviously anti-israeli biased news report, I noted a couple of factors that I find deeply interesting.
Israeli air-strikes are being heralded by warning rockets precision hit on Hamas-related targets. The one I witnessed resulted in two anxious crowds at either end of a city street.. waiting pensively for the strike. Watching as spectators. The missile then struck.. exactly on the marked target.. a housing block., which was duly demolished. TV cameras were initially prevented from entering the street by a man with a plank. When they were let in, it was to film the "rescue" of three infants, alive and unwell, from a building next door.
So..1) The air-strikes are surgical, spot on aimed, and pre-warned. Hardly indiscriminate, or the random shelling of Hamas. So surgical people STAY TO WATCH. They even seem to have worked out the minimum safe distance.
2) In this particular case.. that whole baby thing just looks inherently dodgy. That everyone eles has time to get away, but someone "forgets" their babies.. three of them, which is quite a large number of newborns (and they were very very young) to find in one place, all of them unharmed. Miraculous almost, especially given the cameras delaying.....
Who exactly is committing terrorist acts here? Unheralded random shelling, without warning or target, or surgically precise airstrikes on very specific targets with what appears to be a good ten minutes worth of warning first....?
Israeli air-strikes are being heralded by warning rockets precision hit on Hamas-related targets. The one I witnessed resulted in two anxious crowds at either end of a city street.. waiting pensively for the strike. Watching as spectators. The missile then struck.. exactly on the marked target.. a housing block., which was duly demolished. TV cameras were initially prevented from entering the street by a man with a plank. When they were let in, it was to film the "rescue" of three infants, alive and unwell, from a building next door.
So..1) The air-strikes are surgical, spot on aimed, and pre-warned. Hardly indiscriminate, or the random shelling of Hamas. So surgical people STAY TO WATCH. They even seem to have worked out the minimum safe distance.
2) In this particular case.. that whole baby thing just looks inherently dodgy. That everyone eles has time to get away, but someone "forgets" their babies.. three of them, which is quite a large number of newborns (and they were very very young) to find in one place, all of them unharmed. Miraculous almost, especially given the cameras delaying.....
Who exactly is committing terrorist acts here? Unheralded random shelling, without warning or target, or surgically precise airstrikes on very specific targets with what appears to be a good ten minutes worth of warning first....?
Are you serious?
Weird...during the 2006 July war I never recall watching an Israeli Jet fighter pointing me to a some specific building and telling me: "yooohoo! watch out civilian, I am bombing this one now after 7 min, take out the children!".
Damn, my aspiness is even preventing me to read jetbody's language.
Yes, deadly serious. This is exactly what was reported in a clearly ANTI-Israeli newscast. The whole tone was set as "Israelis are bastards, look at the babies they nearly killed."
Your childishness in response does not change the result. It can be seen in one of two ways. Either the western media is trying to double-bluff the rest of the world or is reporting things as they see them...The people in that film fled the scene and STAYED TO WATCH THE BOMBING. Perhaps it was not even a bombing, but a 9-11-style fake? And that does not change the fact that Israel is precision targeting very specific places, whilst Hamas is indiscriminate.
_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
02 Jan 2009, 3:00 pm
Macbeth wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Having just watched a very obviously anti-israeli biased news report, I noted a couple of factors that I find deeply interesting.
Israeli air-strikes are being heralded by warning rockets precision hit on Hamas-related targets. The one I witnessed resulted in two anxious crowds at either end of a city street.. waiting pensively for the strike. Watching as spectators. The missile then struck.. exactly on the marked target.. a housing block., which was duly demolished. TV cameras were initially prevented from entering the street by a man with a plank. When they were let in, it was to film the "rescue" of three infants, alive and unwell, from a building next door.
So..1) The air-strikes are surgical, spot on aimed, and pre-warned. Hardly indiscriminate, or the random shelling of Hamas. So surgical people STAY TO WATCH. They even seem to have worked out the minimum safe distance.
2) In this particular case.. that whole baby thing just looks inherently dodgy. That everyone eles has time to get away, but someone "forgets" their babies.. three of them, which is quite a large number of newborns (and they were very very young) to find in one place, all of them unharmed. Miraculous almost, especially given the cameras delaying.....
Who exactly is committing terrorist acts here? Unheralded random shelling, without warning or target, or surgically precise airstrikes on very specific targets with what appears to be a good ten minutes worth of warning first....?
Israeli air-strikes are being heralded by warning rockets precision hit on Hamas-related targets. The one I witnessed resulted in two anxious crowds at either end of a city street.. waiting pensively for the strike. Watching as spectators. The missile then struck.. exactly on the marked target.. a housing block., which was duly demolished. TV cameras were initially prevented from entering the street by a man with a plank. When they were let in, it was to film the "rescue" of three infants, alive and unwell, from a building next door.
So..1) The air-strikes are surgical, spot on aimed, and pre-warned. Hardly indiscriminate, or the random shelling of Hamas. So surgical people STAY TO WATCH. They even seem to have worked out the minimum safe distance.
2) In this particular case.. that whole baby thing just looks inherently dodgy. That everyone eles has time to get away, but someone "forgets" their babies.. three of them, which is quite a large number of newborns (and they were very very young) to find in one place, all of them unharmed. Miraculous almost, especially given the cameras delaying.....
Who exactly is committing terrorist acts here? Unheralded random shelling, without warning or target, or surgically precise airstrikes on very specific targets with what appears to be a good ten minutes worth of warning first....?
Are you serious?
Weird...during the 2006 July war I never recall watching an Israeli Jet fighter pointing me to a some specific building and telling me: "yooohoo! watch out civilian, I am bombing this one now after 7 min, take out the children!".
Damn, my aspiness is even preventing me to read jetbody's language.
Yes, deadly serious. This is exactly what was reported in a clearly ANTI-Israeli newscast. The whole tone was set as "Israelis are bastards, look at the babies they nearly killed."
Your childishness in response does not change the result. It can be seen in one of two ways. Either the western media is trying to double-bluff the rest of the world or is reporting things as they see them...The people in that film fled the scene and STAYED TO WATCH THE BOMBING. Perhaps it was not even a bombing, but a 9-11-style fake? And that does not change the fact that Israel is precision targeting very specific places, whilst Hamas is indiscriminate.
Ok, why you don't link us to this video?
Are you telling me that the 400+ dead in this ongoing Gaza war and the 1000+ dead civilians in Lebanon on July War were killed due to Israeli's humanitarian accurate strikes? hmmm
I might be "childish" but , unlike you, I lived the Israeli's bombings.
Personal question: Are you Zionist?
Last edited by LePetitPrince on 02 Jan 2009, 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
02 Jan 2009, 3:02 pm
Berk wrote:
How many Israelis have been killed by this Hamas bombardment, 4? You do realise you are talking about basically fireworks against full blown missiles, think of the blast radious of these things compared to an RPG type projectile.
From an AP news report:
"Hamas' homemade rocket, known informally as the Qassam, is grossly imprecise, carries a small warhead of about 22 pounds of explosives. They have caused casualties but more often just spark panic.
The imported missiles, Katyushas, are better guided, travel farther and cause more damage because they have a warhead of up to 44 pounds, roughly the weight of a cannon shell from one of Israel's Merkava tanks."
I don't know if you have ever seen what a tank shell can do to a building or a person.... but the fact that they have a relatively low kill ratio is entirely down to inaccuracy rather than any desire to be nice and fluffy or warn people first or anything of that ilk. If Hamas had access to more accurate means, they would use them. They do.. hence the bus bombs...
_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
02 Jan 2009, 3:15 pm
LePetitPrince wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Having just watched a very obviously anti-israeli biased news report, I noted a couple of factors that I find deeply interesting.
Israeli air-strikes are being heralded by warning rockets precision hit on Hamas-related targets. The one I witnessed resulted in two anxious crowds at either end of a city street.. waiting pensively for the strike. Watching as spectators. The missile then struck.. exactly on the marked target.. a housing block., which was duly demolished. TV cameras were initially prevented from entering the street by a man with a plank. When they were let in, it was to film the "rescue" of three infants, alive and unwell, from a building next door.
So..1) The air-strikes are surgical, spot on aimed, and pre-warned. Hardly indiscriminate, or the random shelling of Hamas. So surgical people STAY TO WATCH. They even seem to have worked out the minimum safe distance.
2) In this particular case.. that whole baby thing just looks inherently dodgy. That everyone eles has time to get away, but someone "forgets" their babies.. three of them, which is quite a large number of newborns (and they were very very young) to find in one place, all of them unharmed. Miraculous almost, especially given the cameras delaying.....
Who exactly is committing terrorist acts here? Unheralded random shelling, without warning or target, or surgically precise airstrikes on very specific targets with what appears to be a good ten minutes worth of warning first....?
Israeli air-strikes are being heralded by warning rockets precision hit on Hamas-related targets. The one I witnessed resulted in two anxious crowds at either end of a city street.. waiting pensively for the strike. Watching as spectators. The missile then struck.. exactly on the marked target.. a housing block., which was duly demolished. TV cameras were initially prevented from entering the street by a man with a plank. When they were let in, it was to film the "rescue" of three infants, alive and unwell, from a building next door.
So..1) The air-strikes are surgical, spot on aimed, and pre-warned. Hardly indiscriminate, or the random shelling of Hamas. So surgical people STAY TO WATCH. They even seem to have worked out the minimum safe distance.
2) In this particular case.. that whole baby thing just looks inherently dodgy. That everyone eles has time to get away, but someone "forgets" their babies.. three of them, which is quite a large number of newborns (and they were very very young) to find in one place, all of them unharmed. Miraculous almost, especially given the cameras delaying.....
Who exactly is committing terrorist acts here? Unheralded random shelling, without warning or target, or surgically precise airstrikes on very specific targets with what appears to be a good ten minutes worth of warning first....?
Are you serious?
Weird...during the 2006 July war I never recall watching an Israeli Jet fighter pointing me to a some specific building and telling me: "yooohoo! watch out civilian, I am bombing this one now after 7 min, take out the children!".
Damn, my aspiness is even preventing me to read jetbody's language.
Yes, deadly serious. This is exactly what was reported in a clearly ANTI-Israeli newscast. The whole tone was set as "Israelis are bastards, look at the babies they nearly killed."
Your childishness in response does not change the result. It can be seen in one of two ways. Either the western media is trying to double-bluff the rest of the world or is reporting things as they see them...The people in that film fled the scene and STAYED TO WATCH THE BOMBING. Perhaps it was not even a bombing, but a 9-11-style fake? And that does not change the fact that Israel is precision targeting very specific places, whilst Hamas is indiscriminate.
Ok, why you don't link us to this video?
Are you telling me that the 400+ dead in this ongoing Gaza war and the 1000+ dead civilians in Lebanon on July War were killed due to Israeli's humanitarian accurate strikes? hmmm
I might be "childish" but , unlike you, I lived the Israeli's bombings.
Personal question: Are you Zionist?
Feel free to look for yourself. Channel Four News, 7pm UK time, UK TV. When I locate a postable link, I will post it. Lead Story on the news.
And lets not start with the "you haven't been there so you don't know" BS eh? I may not have been shelled by Israelis, but I have lived in a nation under fairly constant terrorist attack for my whole life, and by chance alone narrowly avoided death by indiscriminate terrorist bomb. The nation I live in has been variously attacked, invaded, captured, liberated, terrorised etc for hundreds of years.
And no, I am not a Zionist, nor hugely pro-israeli, nor particularly anti-muslim or anti-palestinian. I don't buy into Zionist conspiracy any more than I do Space Nazis from the Future. I just judge events by what I see, what I learn, and what I have learned, and what has come before. I have no particular bias against race or religion, save perhaps that I could be described as pro-colonial, after a fashion. I happen to like what my country has been, and what it could be, and I am both proud and ashamed of various things it has done or been involved in.
I also feel great sorrow for those who are victims of conflict not of their making, nor in their control... and generally speaking, most of us are...
_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
03 Jan 2009, 12:29 am
I think there will never be peace in this region. It's sad, but both peoples have built their entire way of life around fighting in every way possible, the legitimacy of each other's existence.
Since Israel is nominally Western, we tend to go with whatever they say. I don't know specifics, but I seem to remember us establishing a protocol with Israel that we'd never vote against them in the UN...which has resulted in a lot of 190-2 votes over the past few decades.
We've only gone to war (and not always officially) with Mexico twice (1840s, and 1910s), and with Canada twice (1812-[burned their capital, which is why they burned ours] and Post Civil-War when the Fenians invaded) Canada hasn't shelled us in all that time (though I'm sure they've wanted to, especially the last 8 years...
and the Mexican crime syndicates are already moving in, so there you go.
Things should change after the 20th, so eventually we'll be less of a presence. I know that region never forgets, and never forgives...but a lot of us would like nothing better than to get out of there...forever...
03 Jan 2009, 5:57 am
Macbeth wrote:
And lets not start with the "you haven't been there so you don't know" BS eh? I may not have been shelled by Israelis, but I have lived in a nation under fairly constant terrorist attack for my whole life, and by chance alone narrowly avoided death by indiscriminate terrorist bomb. The nation I live in has been variously attacked, invaded, captured, liberated, terrorised etc for hundreds of years.
The PIRA is no longer armed. There have been only 10 successful terror attacks in the UK since 2000. I haven't heard of much RIRA attacks of late, wasn't the last in 2005?
On the other hand, I live surrounded by naxals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:India ... ts_map.svg
There are 33 active terrorist outfits in India (Naxals are Maoists, not considered terrorists).
I too have narrowly escaped death. From attacks by naxals on police convoys to bomb blasts.
You can't compare indiscriminate shelling to random bomb blasts. They're completely different. For one thing, bomb blasts occur once in a blue moon. Shelling occurs on a daily basis.
The nation you live in, for hundreds of years, has been responsible for inhuman acts of brutality. One example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre
If that's not terrorism, I don't know what is.
Ever wondered why all the former colonies of the UK curse your nation daily decades after independence?
Like LPP earlier said, terrorism is reaction to an action. If the crowns of Great Britain and Ireland were not united by George III, there would have been no civil war, thus no IRA and no Irish Free State. If Northern Ireland wasn't a hub for settlement by Scots, there would've been no loyalists, no revolutionaries, nothing. Don't try to paste a clean image on your nation.
Peace.
03 Jan 2009, 9:27 am
Khan_Sama wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
And lets not start with the "you haven't been there so you don't know" BS eh? I may not have been shelled by Israelis, but I have lived in a nation under fairly constant terrorist attack for my whole life, and by chance alone narrowly avoided death by indiscriminate terrorist bomb. The nation I live in has been variously attacked, invaded, captured, liberated, terrorised etc for hundreds of years.
The PIRA is no longer armed. There have been only 10 successful terror attacks in the UK since 2000. I haven't heard of much RIRA attacks of late, wasn't the last in 2005?
On the other hand, I live surrounded by naxals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:India ... ts_map.svg
There are 33 active terrorist outfits in India (Naxals are Maoists, not considered terrorists).
I too have narrowly escaped death. From attacks by naxals on police convoys to bomb blasts.
You can't compare indiscriminate shelling to random bomb blasts. They're completely different. For one thing, bomb blasts occur once in a blue moon. Shelling occurs on a daily basis.
The nation you live in, for hundreds of years, has been responsible for inhuman acts of brutality. One example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre
If that's not terrorism, I don't know what is.
Ever wondered why all the former colonies of the UK curse your nation daily decades after independence?
Like LPP earlier said, terrorism is reaction to an action. If the crowns of Great Britain and Ireland were not united by George III, there would have been no civil war, thus no IRA and no Irish Free State. If Northern Ireland wasn't a hub for settlement by Scots, there would've been no loyalists, no revolutionaries, nothing. Don't try to paste a clean image on your nation.
Peace.
So what if there have only been ten successful attacks since 2000? I'm not 9 years old. Care to count how many attacks and attempts have been made since 78? Is it more than ten? 3 years since a Real IRA bombing? So what.. I'm just glad we aren't being bombed at the moment. Nor are Irish militants the only people who have or have had beef with us.
I couldn't give a monkeys f**k WHY we were being bombed by the Irish.. it does not change the fact that we were. Nor did I mention any reason why. I was just saying.. we were, and we have been, even if we are not now. Nor do I care if you happen to have a greater concentration of terrorist groups, as it still does not change the fact that the UK has been a target for terrorism for a very long time. This is not supposed to be a "my life is worse than yours" argument. We are not doing the Python Four Yorkshireman sketch here. "Your terrorists only use bombs? That's not terrorism. MY terrorists use guns and knives AND kidnap people..."
And given that the end result is SURPRISE YOU'RE DEAD!! ! I think shelling and bombing are infinitely comparable. Its still some poor family out on a day trip that ends up spread all over the street... a shopping centre full of women and children on fire and burning.. an innocent persons front room full of body parts.
And frankly, I don't care to get into an argument about the rights and wrongs of British colonial rule, because it is not relevant to the thread.
_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
03 Jan 2009, 10:52 am
There is a saying from the Babylonian Talmud:
If he comes to kill your, rise up early and slay him first.
The alternative to defending one's self and family is permitting one's self and family to be slaughtered. So the only issue is how this self defense is to be carried out.
ruveyn
03 Jan 2009, 11:40 am
ruveyn wrote:
There is a saying from the Babylonian Talmud:
If he comes to kill your, rise up early and slay him first.
The alternative to defending one's self and family is permitting one's self and family to be slaughtered. So the only issue is how this self defense is to be carried out.
ruveyn
If he comes to kill your, rise up early and slay him first.
The alternative to defending one's self and family is permitting one's self and family to be slaughtered. So the only issue is how this self defense is to be carried out.
ruveyn
And that's why there will never be peace in areas where religion is in government.
03 Jan 2009, 12:02 pm
Macbeth wrote:
Khan_Sama wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
And lets not start with the "you haven't been there so you don't know" BS eh? I may not have been shelled by Israelis, but I have lived in a nation under fairly constant terrorist attack for my whole life, and by chance alone narrowly avoided death by indiscriminate terrorist bomb. The nation I live in has been variously attacked, invaded, captured, liberated, terrorised etc for hundreds of years.
The PIRA is no longer armed. There have been only 10 successful terror attacks in the UK since 2000. I haven't heard of much RIRA attacks of late, wasn't the last in 2005?
On the other hand, I live surrounded by naxals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:India ... ts_map.svg
There are 33 active terrorist outfits in India (Naxals are Maoists, not considered terrorists).
I too have narrowly escaped death. From attacks by naxals on police convoys to bomb blasts.
You can't compare indiscriminate shelling to random bomb blasts. They're completely different. For one thing, bomb blasts occur once in a blue moon. Shelling occurs on a daily basis.
The nation you live in, for hundreds of years, has been responsible for inhuman acts of brutality. One example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre
If that's not terrorism, I don't know what is.
Ever wondered why all the former colonies of the UK curse your nation daily decades after independence?
Like LPP earlier said, terrorism is reaction to an action. If the crowns of Great Britain and Ireland were not united by George III, there would have been no civil war, thus no IRA and no Irish Free State. If Northern Ireland wasn't a hub for settlement by Scots, there would've been no loyalists, no revolutionaries, nothing. Don't try to paste a clean image on your nation.
Peace.
So what if there have only been ten successful attacks since 2000? I'm not 9 years old. Care to count how many attacks and attempts have been made since 78? Is it more than ten? 3 years since a Real IRA bombing? So what.. I'm just glad we aren't being bombed at the moment. Nor are Irish militants the only people who have or have had beef with us.
I couldn't give a monkeys f**k WHY we were being bombed by the Irish.. it does not change the fact that we were. Nor did I mention any reason why. I was just saying.. we were, and we have been, even if we are not now. Nor do I care if you happen to have a greater concentration of terrorist groups, as it still does not change the fact that the UK has been a target for terrorism for a very long time. This is not supposed to be a "my life is worse than yours" argument. We are not doing the Python Four Yorkshireman sketch here. "Your terrorists only use bombs? That's not terrorism. MY terrorists use guns and knives AND kidnap people..."
And given that the end result is SURPRISE YOU'RE DEAD!! ! I think shelling and bombing are infinitely comparable. Its still some poor family out on a day trip that ends up spread all over the street... a shopping centre full of women and children on fire and burning.. an innocent persons front room full of body parts.
And frankly, I don't care to get into an argument about the rights and wrongs of British colonial rule, because it is not relevant to the thread.
Oh chill, you are talking as if my country was never a target for terrorist bombings in malls and market. However, 3 or 10 or 30 bombings can be compared to a single series of jet strikes , the results can be the same: death.
But there's a huge difference in amount of destruction and death and economical consequences.
Just try to count the total strikes on this map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ct_box.jpg
I am not saying "my life is worse than yours" , I don't need your pity. I am just saying that I know what the Israeli are capable and I won't accept a lie argument such as "The Israeli army are so good-hearted, they only target militants and never do random bombing". I don't care what you saw in this vid of yours, I saw the dead civilians and children and I experienced your so-claimed Israeli's accurate surgical humanitarian strikes. That's why I was offended by this argument, because it was an insult to my intelligence and to the deads I witnessed.
Quote:
And frankly, I don't care to get into an argument about the rights and wrongs of British colonial rule, because it is not relevant to the thread
Well actually, your ancestors' army can be compared to the modern I"D"F regarding violence and racism(if not even worse ) , so it can be on topic. You just can't accept the fact that your royal noble ancestors' army was one of the worst massacring and robbery machine in the human history , they were not much different than the Mongol army, and the 'glory' of your nation was founded on this fact.
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