Oregon governor proposes Orwellian-style surveillance

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twoshots
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02 Jan 2009, 11:09 pm

garyww wrote:

As an earlier poster mentioned the U.S. is way behind other countries as far as individual auto monitoring is concerned so this doesn't seem to be to far outside the norm, just by our current standards. The Feds wanted to do this same thing back in 74 and later in 84 but it was to expensive to implement. It's far more cost effective now.
Orwell would be proud of how far the government has progressed, as ret*d as it is, in it's quest to dominate us subjects.

I take very little comfort in the idea that every infringement on one's civil liberties is just another example of how the USA is behind the curve.

"To be governed is to be watched, inspected, directed, indoctrinated, numbered, estimated, regulated, commanded, controlled, law-driven, preached at, spied upon, censored, checked, valued, enrolled, by creatures who have neither the right, nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so."

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twoshots
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02 Jan 2009, 11:56 pm

gamefreak wrote:

Just another way for the government to watch after use. The PATRIOT ACT and now this!! !! I am so starting a protest if this actually goes through. If the goverment needs money just cut spending. There is plenty of Pork Barrel spending that the government does that puts our country in the hole.

Well, what's nice about the Patriot Act is that there's no shortage of very noisy people who were appalled by it. I get sometimes more the impression that people will go quite quietly into the police state as long as its road is paved with enough liberal platitudes and gumdrop intentions, just one. step. at a time...

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Cyanide
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03 Jan 2009, 5:56 am

ascan wrote:

Cyanide wrote:

But I don't even think the UK has reached the point of satellite-spying on peoples' cars, have they?

Well, yes they have. They have launched pilot projects in various cities to test that kind of technology, for charging per mile. Furthermore, there are masses of cameras that have the capability to recognise and record vehicle registration numbers. Also, GPS tracking devices are routinely fitted to company cars, and are a requirement of certain motor insurance companies if you want a discount, I think.

Wow... I have to say I'm sorry that you have to live in the UK.

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03 Jan 2009, 8:20 am

Uh, what's wrong with encouraging the usage of public transportation?

From what I can see, the car culture in America has been a mistake and a classic textbook case study of poor prior planning in the 50s.

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03 Jan 2009, 9:27 pm

NEWater wrote:

Uh, what's wrong with encouraging the usage of public transportation?

QED (see above)

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ascan
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05 Jan 2009, 4:27 am

Cyanide wrote:

ascan wrote:

Cyanide wrote:

But I don't even think the UK has reached the point of satellite-spying on peoples' cars, have they?

Wow... I have to say I'm sorry that you have to live in the UK.

So am I. It's like living in some kind of Orwellian nightmare. Unfortunately most youngsters here don't know any different, as they're born into it, so tend to accept state observation and control in everything they do. That doesn't give me any hope for the future.

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05 Jan 2009, 11:24 pm

NEWater wrote:

I use public transit and walk myself. I prefer doing it because it doesn't cost as much and the cities won't be half as polluted.

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05 Jan 2009, 11:39 pm

ascan wrote:

Cyanide wrote:

I'm sure the thread title got your attention, but SADLY it is true...

Yes, your country is going the same way as the UK. Can't you lynch the guy like in the old movies?

We got a protest with 3 million signatures when the government were thinking of it. What a shame they were forced to bottle the scheme, personally I thought it was a pretty good idea.

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05 Jan 2009, 11:41 pm

ascan wrote:

Cyanide wrote:

ascan wrote:

Cyanide wrote:

But I don't even think the UK has reached the point of satellite-spying on peoples' cars, have they?

Wow... I have to say I'm sorry that you have to live in the UK.

LOL! The only thing we have that Orwellian is all those CCTV cameras, half of those which at best produce a blurry image and most of which that are not linked to anything. Nothing at all like of Orwell.

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06 Jan 2009, 3:54 am

Kangoogle wrote:

ascan wrote:

Cyanide wrote:

I'm sure the thread title got your attention, but SADLY it is true...

Yes, your country is going the same way as the UK. Can't you lynch the guy like in the old movies?

We got a protest with 3 million signatures when the government were thinking of it. What a shame they were forced to bottle the scheme, personally I thought it was a pretty good idea.

Really? I don't think anything much has been bottled on a national level. Road pricing is still on the agenda, and that includes the use of GPS technology to track vehicle movement.

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06 Jan 2009, 4:12 am

Kangoogle wrote:

I guess you're one of those youngsters I mentioned earlier who's been born into this mess and knows no different. Look, there are systems on all the major road networks that transmit vehicle registration numbers to central databases. Effectively most vehicle movements are already recorded and kept for use by the police and other government agencies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police-enforced_ANPR_in_the_UK

I really haven't time this morning to go on and fully justify my claim of an Orwellian society. However, I have commented on the various relevant issues here in the past, and my first paragraph above does illustrate one area of concern. If you want another, you could look at how 101 different government bodies can now search your property, or how your communications are, and will be, monitored in the future. Maybe you could also consider how opposition politicians are intimidated by the police (think conservative MPs and BNP members with this one).

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06 Jan 2009, 11:48 am

ascan wrote:

Kangoogle wrote:

I really don't see a problem at all with that (a can of Flashtek would sort you out if you really needed it.). If you wanted something to properly complain about look up ECHELON, which goes on throughout the world.

Quote:

I really haven't time this morning to go on and fully justify my claim of an Orwellian society. However, I have commented on the various relevant issues here in the past, and my first paragraph above does illustrate one area of concern. If you want another, you could look at how 101 different government bodies can now search your property, or how your communications are, and will be, monitored in the future. Maybe you could also consider how opposition politicians are intimidated by the police (think conservative MPs and BNP members with this one).

Anyone who takes the right precautions is fine - the only thing most of these powers are getting seriously used for is going after Al-Quieda members. As for the opposition politicians, they more than deserve it. Under any vaguely meritocratic system none of them would have seats in parliament in the first place.

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06 Jan 2009, 3:16 pm

Kangoogle wrote:

...If you wanted something to properly complain about look up ECHELON, which goes on throughout the world.

I alluded to that kind of thing in the last post, Kangoogle. And you can take this argument further to encompass how both EU countries and the US can get their hands on British citizens so easily when they've done nothing that's a crime in this country.

Kangoogle wrote:

...Anyone who takes the right precautions is fine - the only thing most of these powers are getting seriously used for is going after Al-Quieda members. As for the opposition politicians, they more than deserve it. Under any vaguely meritocratic system none of them would have seats in parliament in the first place.

But those powers are not only, or mainly, being used for that. They are being used frequently to monitor people suspected of minor "offences" such as conspiring to send their kids to a decent school, or overfilling their bins. They are also sometimes used to hound people purely on a guilt by association basis. As for taking precautions, I've really no wish to live in a society where I have to consider that anything I say or write critical of the government is being recorded ready for the day when that government finds it needs "evidence" to justify detaining me.

Regarding your politician comments, in any meritocratic system our current leader, with his record of incompetency, would be claiming job seekers allowance.

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06 Jan 2009, 3:18 pm

I read about this a few days ago...

Even though I'm not an Oregonian, I oppose the idea. I think it's going too far for the state to monitor how much somehow drives.
I can understand that this is a way to find new tax revenues for transportation with people using gasoline less and hopefully switching to non-gas cars, but this idea just sounds like an invasion of privacy. Should we monitor how many steps people take so we tax them for sidewalk usage? No, that's silly and so is this.

Put taxes on the new resources that are coming as gas is replaced. That's the more logical thing to do.

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Kangoogle
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06 Jan 2009, 6:13 pm

ascan wrote:

Kangoogle wrote:

...If you wanted something to properly complain about look up ECHELON, which goes on throughout the world.

So easily? You mean with the Home Secretary's approval.

Quote:

Kangoogle wrote:

Since when has being a thieving fraudster been a minor offence? Because that is what it effectively amounts to.

Quote:

They are also sometimes used to hound people purely on a guilt by association basis. As for taking precautions, I've really no wish to live in a society where I have to consider that anything I say or write critical of the government is being recorded ready for the day when that government finds it needs "evidence" to justify detaining me.

Move abroad then? Oh I forgot - there is no country in the world where this does not go to some extent.

Quote:

Regarding your politician comments, in any meritocratic system our current leader, with his record of incompetency, would be claiming job seekers allowance.

In any meritocratic system, our leader would be able to do his job properly without having to pander to the political system or have to waste his time playing politics. If anyone is to blame for all this, its the Conservatives and their media barons and aristocrats.

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07 Jan 2009, 8:02 am

Cyanide wrote:

I'm sure the thread title got your attention, but SADLY it is true.

My state's governor, Ted Kulongoski, has proposed replacing the gas tax with satellite/GPS surveillance on everyone's cars. He would then tax people on how many miles they drove.

http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/si ... /story.csp

This is an extremely brazen violation of the 4th amendment. I'm really scared... I mean, there are so many bad things the government could do with this. It seems as Oregon is to lead the way into 1984. This is bad enough that I would consider leaving the state if this was enacted (but not after attempting to organize a giant protest and/or submit a case to the Supreme Court).

So true...where is the judicial system when we need it?
Love your username by the way...one of my favourite poisons lol (ricin too

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