Pacifism, Pt 2

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You seem to assume I carry such things under the hope that I have to use them, when I really carry them under the fear that I have to use them. There was a time when I was the only person that stopped the beating of a severely racist guy that I felt would have deserved it. All that I would have had to do to let is happen was said nothing, but I didn't. I just plain don't like violence. Hell, I refused to even let my friends use my guns to kill animals (they've tried to get me to let them). And I understand quite well that the mere presence of a large, intimidating looking person such as myself armed with either my fists, a knife, or a gun is more than enough of a psychological deterrent that I don't have to resort to violence, and it's something that I plan on using when necessary (no, not pulling a gun on a guy trying to challenge me to fisticuffs, at minimum a guy that pulls a knife on me).

Tell me, a person under your definition of a pacifist, if they saw a child being beaten to death by a random criminal so high on meth that the only way to stop them was to render the person unconscious or dead (unable to get the child away from them), and the pacifist did as such, would they still be a pacifist? Or would the only way to remain being a pacifist is to let the child die? If by your definition the answer's the latter, then I guess by your definition, I'm not a pacifist. But I'd prefer to not be a pacifist under your definition than to be a selfish ass who thinks that the life of an innocent is worth less than a belief.

Once again: I only attack in life-or-death, and I attack only to incapacitate by whatever means necessary, not to injure. I take no pleasure in injuring anyone or anything, nor am I an angry or a violent person that jumps straight to violence. Because of this, I feel that I still fall under the definition of pacifism as not believing violence as a means of resolving dispute, I use peaceful means first and foremost. More so than your average pacifist, since I refuse to kill even insects, including mosquitoes that bite me (I just shoo them away).

And just to let you know, the knife I carry I use as a general usage/work knife, not a combat knife. I don't have my CCW permit, yet, even though I've taken above and beyond the required classes (more than your average police officer). Not until I can obtain a Ruger GP100 or S&W Model 627 with the 357 rubber rounds along with a Crimson Trace grip. And I don't have a gun to stop a dad from smacking his child, I have a gun to stop a guy with an AK-47 shooting his way through a mall/school/renaissance fair. Nor do I flaunt my gun; I'm not one of those jackasses that thinks guns solve everything.

Considering ASD folks' tendency to argue over admittedly immaterial, subtle definitions, I can see this going back and forth repeatedly, so I shan't post a rebuttal after this. I'll give you the benefit of having the last word if you want, so if you still consider me to not be a pacifist: no worries. We can just say that I'll remain a pacifist until the unlikely day that someone tries to go on a shooting spree in front of me. Then I'll do what I can to stop them, with anything I can use from a chair to my Mini-14 (which has only ever been used to kill about 200 pop cans).

Last edited by DNForrest on 28 Jan 2009, 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Seconded, a person pulls a gun to steal my wallet, I'm going to give him my wallet. And no, despite what you might think of me, I wouldn't shoot him when he turned away, even if I had my gun. After he'd left, he's no longer posing a threat to me, so I'm just going to call the police. Who says I gave him a my real wallet and cell phone?

I find you to be more reasonable than Dox47, and that you should take as praise.

Where do you live, anyway?

Haha, thanks. I can easily understand people confusing me with your typical gun loon, even the gun loons themselves do. Nothing says "fun" like a white supremacist following you around, telling you about the time he got away with killing two Mexicans (said in a derogatory manner, of course). Sadly, I'm not joking.

And I'm currently in Corvallis, OR. Might be going back to grad school here at OSU, who knows.

I was born and raised a passive way,(Waldorf) I almost died at 16 (Legionnaires) with a passive attitude about it. When I die I hope to die in piece, but for now I can't allow the risk.

God bless those who can live up to the pure standard.

.... I'm not a pacifist. (but wish I were and respect it)
Here's why and how:
.....I have stepped in to a circle stomp, shocked by the viscous violent team attack on a defenseless kid. I woke up staring at a mirror covered with my blood in a strange bathroom.
... I have had a pellet gun to my head for a terrifying long time when i was 14
....I have had to knock down two guys on a dark path at 16
... I have dodged a swinging hunting knife, and been robbed twice. these were the random acts of violence. I have suffered endlessly at the hands of man. Now I don't trust and there for am on guard at all times.

Protect life regardless of risk.

Situational deviation: Family and others are at risk. I must protect family first.

I will give them my eye so you can keep yours.

Clarify?

I am not sick with any physical ailments, I am mortal. Life is desperately fragile. And I have hopes but no expectations for longevity. I am feeling quite mortal right now, I guess its on my mind with the trip to the doctors for AS diag. referral Besides all that ....

...When I leave this world. I hope that I have finally accepted our world from a nutral perspective, and with out all the disturbing realities on my mind as such. A clear at peace mind, I felt at peace last time in those terms but I hadn't seen and felt as much then either.

I am way to depressing, woops.(':oops:')

What is the risk for which you can't allow-- peaceful death or death in general?

Violent people will usually find a violent way to die. Peaceful people usually don't die by the sword if they don't live by the sword. But you should be thinking about how you want to live, not how you want to die.

Just a piece of advice.

Ha
I wrote in Piece .....



Lets go with the head. lol

???

dont worry about it just wandering around outie.

Pacifism is a nice ideal and I avoid any sort of aggressive confrontation but if someone approaches me with life threatening force I will consider that person no longer to be regarded with any compassion. There are several problems involved. The first is a clear understanding of the situation. Many police people and soldiers can be unduly aggressive because they carry lethal weapons and there have been serious tragedies in authorities misjudging a situation. There is no guarantee that a mugger will not injure or kill you if you accede to his or her wishes and surrender your valuables. It's just a matter of logical strategy as to what is the best method of protecting yourself. If I am life threatened I will not hesitate to respond with lethal force if it looks like an effective response but I prefer to retreat and surrender my valuables if that looks effective. I consider my own life extremely valuable and will respond to aggression with whatever strategy seems might be effective. I have lived a fairly long life and so far have been very lucky in not having to resort to violent strategies.

Are you a pacifist or not? You were kind of all over the place there.

That is another way of saying that a warrior only fights if he needs to.

ruveyn

More suicidal & irrational than violence?

I am extremely non-aggressive but if attacked I will respond as the situation requires. If I can get out of a bad situation unscathed I will choose whatever strategy that requires with minimum damage all around. I habitually rescue insects and small animals and even plants if I can help but I do not welcome anything that threatens my life and will respond accordingly.